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  1. #1
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    Default What Could Cause This ?

    This home was a new construction.Solarbord was the decking.This pic is on another forum and we are trying to get answers as to how this could happen.,and what was the reason.

    This home seen many stages of moisture.,rain etc.The decking was supposedly covered up (felted) soon after it was decked.I personally do not thing inadequate ventilation is solely to blame since thi was becoming apparent soon after it was roofed.

    I think it is from improper fastening resulting in blow thru's and the plywood is becoming loose.What do you think ?

    BTW.,In this subdivision about 15 houses are like this. I have pix of the attic too.,if needed.

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  2. #2
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    Default Re: What Could Cause This ?

    Attic etc.

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  3. #3
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    Default Re: What Could Cause This ?

    Improper layout of the decking, improper nailing of the decking and missing decking clips.

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  4. #4
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    Default Re: What Could Cause This ?

    Wow, that is really wacked. Is it like that on the other side of house also ?
    The problem looks uniform. If there are 15 houses like this I do not think that the same nail gun set at 150# would be the culprit.
    Since it appears to be the outline of the decking edges telegraphing through the shingle and like this on 15 houses.
    My thinking:
    1) Deck material all part of same production run.
    2) Manufacture left material exposed to water prior to shipping to supplier.
    3) Deck material stored at supplier and left exposed.
    4) Material all delivered at same time.
    3) Material stored on job site and exposed to weather. Edges not sealed.
    4) Not likely that all roofs decked at same time and left exposed (if the other 14 look the same) for the same amount of time.
    5) Not likely that the same nail gun set at 150# + used on all roofs by same mechanic, but possible. Which would allow water to get into nailing points (6" centers) and puddling at the nail heads and causing swelling of OSB, but would not account for non nailed edges.
    6) Not likely that even a bad mechanic could do such a uniform bad installation.
    6) Looking at exterior pict 3 first thought that even cut edges show but lines of factory edges.
    7) If there is no evidence of OSB deterioration on attic side edges, then I would think swelling is on exterior side only. (cut backing off and inspect edge at H-clips).
    8) Do not think it has anything to do with deck board offset at 32" instead of 48" (my preference).
    9) Deck butt edges not left 1/8" gap for expansion is possible factor though it would not explain H-clip edges.
    10) Roof orientation to sun possible factor. Though unlikely unless other factors involved.
    Conclusion:
    1) Water intrusion into OSB on factory edges. Causing swelling and decontamination.
    2) Possibility that there may be a factory glue issue that allowed moisture penetration greater than is normally experienced when exposed.
    3) Deck installation completed at same time and left exposed to moisture intrusion on edges and possibly accelerated by defective glue used in manufacturing or edges not sealed in manufacturing.
    Recommendation:
    Pull off shingle near ridge at deck butt joint to inspect deck material. This will require a surgical.
    What ever the cause it has to be completely redone.


  5. #5
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    Default Re: What Could Cause This ?

    My guess is the roof decking panels were installed too closely to each other with not enough roof left for expansion.

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  6. #6
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    Default Re: What Could Cause This ?

    I was at a condo complex a few months ago that was just the same.
    Plywood edges lifting under the shingles.
    Jamming the safety on a nail gun is my usual suspect as it allows nailing with no feel of whether you're catching wood or not.
    In spanish I think it's called
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  7. #7
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    Default Re: What Could Cause This ?

    I also considered the possibility that with one crew over shooting on all structures might be unlikely.But if one crew was being used for the subdivision it might be possible.

    The decking does have H-clips.The picture that puzzles me is the one I have posted with this post.For some reason it looks as if there is a dark area as I have pointed out with arrows under the plywood and running a partial length of the truss.

    I think it is inconsistent with the normal wood grain.I also wondered if it may have been a shadow illusion.What do you think ? Is that possibly shadow or wood grain ?

    I am going over to the other site and I am going to grab a couple more pix.

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  8. #8
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    Default Re: What Could Cause This ?

    The edges of the plywood are damaged. If the top of the plywood is in the same shape as underside this may account for the ridging?


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    Default Re: What Could Cause This ?

    What Nick said. Not so uncommon, especially with the untrained construction crews that are so prevalent today.

    Jerry McCarthy
    Building Code/ Construction Consultant

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    Default Re: What Could Cause This ?

    Quote Originally Posted by Nick Ostrowski View Post
    My guess is the roof decking panels were installed too closely to each other with not enough roof left for expansion.
    Quote Originally Posted by Jerry McCarthy View Post
    What Nick said. Not so uncommon, especially with the untrained construction crews that are so prevalent today.
    Agreed, sheathing sized for spacing and installed in tight contact with each other. You can see every edge of every sheet of roof deck.

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    Default Re: What Could Cause This ?

    Solarbord is OSB with a foil coating on only one side, right?
    The black lines along the trusses indicate moisture, possibly from rain leaking thru gaps before the shingles went on.
    My guess is they sheathed the roof and let the OSB get wet before the shingles went on. Moisture can't escape, because of the foil and shingles. Moisture enters the OSB at the edges.

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  12. #12
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    Default Re: What Could Cause This ?

    If it has H-clips, that should give it the space it needs, at least on horizontal seams.

    Almost every seam is visible. It started early, and it's getting worse. That photo with the dark bits is suspicious. Looks like a moisture problem to me, especially since it's OSB. Wet when felted maybe. Is it getting worse, or did it do that soon after roofing and stay that way? Which Springfield are you in? How old is the house? This idea is a bit wacky, but I wonder if it's possible there's nighttime condensation on the foil that's getting into the seams and causing swelling. Freeze/thaw cycles would make it worse. But then you'd expect the horizontal seams to be more obvious than vertical ones.

    My bet's on rain when it was sheathed, then covered soon after.

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    Default Re: What Could Cause This ?

    Ach, he beat me to it while I was mulling over possibilities.

    Do not think of knocking out another person's brains because he differs in opinion from you. It would be as rational to knock yourself on the head because you differ from yourself ten years ago.
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  14. #14
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    Default Re: What Could Cause This ?

    This is a totally different situation, but I thought it interesting that the effect was similar, though not nearly as pronounced.

    Do not think of knocking out another person's brains because he differs in opinion from you. It would be as rational to knock yourself on the head because you differ from yourself ten years ago.
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  15. #15
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    Default Re: What Could Cause This ?

    Quote Originally Posted by Kristi Silber View Post
    This is a totally different situation, but I thought it interesting that the effect was similar, though not nearly as pronounced.
    Very interesting read Kristi.,Thank you for posting.The homeowner is saying the effects were obvious once the roof installation but has progressed into what is shown.They are having SolarBord reps come out and have a look see.

    I am curious of the technique (Timeline)of framing in this area.I am wondering if moisture was not present as the decking was being installed.Or the framing was subjected to a crazy amount of moisture prior to the decking.


  16. #16
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    Default Re: What Could Cause This ?

    I agree expansion joint, they ran that board tight...what idiots, they must of smoked the instructions for breakfast...

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    Default Re: What Could Cause This ?

    I am curious of the technique (Timeline)of framing in this area.I am wondering if moisture was not present as the decking was being installed.Or the framing was subjected to a crazy amount of moisture prior to the decking.
    Yeah, you could match up weather records with inspection dates or something like that. Maybe they sheathed a bunch and waited before roofing to get them all inspected at once, and it rained. Who knows?

    I agree, it's a moisture thing. Showing up on the outer edges of the sheathing, which are delaminating. Typical of damp OSB. The foil might protect the inner side from moisture; there doesn't seem to be much damage there.

    Do not think of knocking out another person's brains because he differs in opinion from you. It would be as rational to knock yourself on the head because you differ from yourself ten years ago.
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    Default Re: What Could Cause This ?

    Kristi, Not to create thread drift, but...I have read your questions in many threads here and find your quest for knowledge in order to do the best job possible be it inspecting, reporting, or what ever, refreshing! Good for you.

    In that spirit, I highly recommend attending the local MN NAHI chapter meeting held each month in Inver Grove Heights at I494 & Robert Street. A great bunch who is very willing to dispense knowledge and help others in the field. AND Monique McClure-Hege is their very competent woman President!

    Their web site is at NAHIMN.org. Tell them I referred you, you may or may not get points!

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  19. #19
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    Default Re: What Could Cause This ?




    The staples and paper (batt insulation kraft facing/flanges?) suggests previous/prior improper containment (vapor/moisture retarder & insulation wrong side) of the material, likewise hunk of batt or loose fill insulation in (bafled?) rafter bay. Similar (staple?) apparent damage to "foil" layer at wall in line/above rafter, see board flared corner (floor/ceiling/wall intersection applied to I/S wall surface), and do not see grommets at nail penetrations. Suspect similar damage (unsealed holes) present elsewhere foil side walls & roof, trapping moisture to the opposite side foil, unable to escape. See darkened pattern at base of adjacent rafter bay/baffle area.
    Was this area previously finished, and/or ceiling finish such as gyp board to the rafters? Was the area conditioned while present? Was there a finished flooring material present? or has the area been unconditioned, and completely unfinished in the past?

    Gas fired (propane, etc.) unvented construction type turbo heaters/dryers used after structure was enclosed and solaboard installed?

    Where (roughly) in the world is this installation (climatic/geographic regions)? I get the impression this may not be local or personal to you, but unsure, anyway there are a lot of places in the world which have areas named "Springfield". Where (roughly) in the world are you? (I noted a reference to a "job" in E. St. Louis in '03, so presumptively Springfield, MO or IL but then again folks move...and again is the subject home/subdivision "local" to your climatic/geographical region, or elsewhere?

    What are the specifications of the decking used? spacing? (16, 19.1, 24?) roofing appears to have been directly installed. Interior shot with scaffolding shows damage at seams and fasteners (clip?) and spacing irregularities. Also appears unfinished open to weather, wind, rain, etc. above wall above/behind scafolding, near can, etc..


    Last edited by H.G. Watson, Sr.; 02-19-2012 at 10:58 AM.

  20. #20
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    Default Re: What Could Cause This ?

    I thought I saw plywood clips on the pics I viewed.....I don't particularly like foil faced plywood for the moisture retention problems mentioned. If it's on other houses in the neighborhood it's likely a product problem....builder should change products......I mean that house doesn't even have sheet rock yet and the edges are telegraphing through.....that means they are swollen from moisture.....maybe the framers could have spaced the panels more but there's only so much you can do.....esp on a 12/12....put the clips in and run with it.....Builder should change to a different product....problem solved


  21. #21
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    Default Re: What Could Cause This ?

    I remember seeing a lot of this, mostly on the homes when OSB first started being used (mid to late 80s) and it was simply a problem with not spacing the panels. You really only notice it on homes with composite shingles. Just about all of the homes in my area are now tile roofs and so it would be hard to see if this is still happening.

    One other thing to consider is the crown of the framing members. Did the framers know enough to orient the rafters?

    OSB is really susceptible to moisture getting in at the edges. I suspect that the decking was rained on and the edges expanded or de-laminated. This is what you are seeing, is my guess.


  22. #22
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    Default Re: What Could Cause This ?

    Quote Originally Posted by Bob Knauff View Post
    Kristi, Not to create thread drift, but...I have read your questions in many threads here and find your quest for knowledge in order to do the best job possible be it inspecting, reporting, or what ever, refreshing! Good for you.

    In that spirit, I highly recommend attending the local MN NAHI chapter meeting held each month in Inver Grove Heights at I494 & Robert Street. A great bunch who is very willing to dispense knowledge and help others in the field. AND Monique McClure-Hege is their very competent woman President!

    Their web site is at NAHIMN.org. Tell them I referred you, you may or may not get points!
    Thanks for those kind words, Bob! I'm always full of questions, that's for sure, and this stuff is interesting.

    I went to an ASHI meeting earlier this month, that's not a bad idea to go to a NAHI one and check that out, too. Thanks for the suggestion! Looks like they're doing an Anderson Window plant tour next week, could be interesting. Cool, a woman president!

    Do not think of knocking out another person's brains because he differs in opinion from you. It would be as rational to knock yourself on the head because you differ from yourself ten years ago.
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  23. #23
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    Default Re: What Could Cause This ?

    Quote Originally Posted by Kristi Silber View Post
    Cool, a woman president!
    Would that be Hillary or Sarah you're cheering for?


  24. #24
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    Default Re: What Could Cause This ?

    Uh-oh, politics! Well, it wouldn't be Sarah, I'll say that much.

    Do not think of knocking out another person's brains because he differs in opinion from you. It would be as rational to knock yourself on the head because you differ from yourself ten years ago.
    - James Burgh, 1754.

  25. #25
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    Default Re: What Could Cause This ?

    I think Sarah is much,much,much easier on the eyes than Hillary.,Maybe if Sarah didn't say or do anything .,wait that is what is going on now.,But Sarah would be better to look at than another term for our current Prez.


  26. #26
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    Default Re: What Could Cause This ?

    So whatever happened here? I thought you were going to get some more photos.

    What is all that stuff above the scaffolding?

    What did they say on the other site you posted this?

    Do not think of knocking out another person's brains because he differs in opinion from you. It would be as rational to knock yourself on the head because you differ from yourself ten years ago.
    - James Burgh, 1754.

  27. #27
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    Default Re: What Could Cause This ?

    Quote Originally Posted by Kristi Silber View Post
    So whatever happened here? I thought you were going to get some more photos.

    What is all that stuff above the scaffolding?

    What did they say on the other site you posted this?

    The last I heard is a meeting of the minds between the Solar reps and the material manufacture were supposed to be meeting.

    Not too sure.We have had 4 tornados and 3 major hail storms so I have not been online that much.I will check though.


  28. #28
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    Default Re: What Could Cause This ?

    I found the discussion elsewhere (simple search) shortly after I posted on this thread. Confirmed much. It hasn't progressed since that time.

    Eastern TN, 90 degree temps then rained upon/IN 9" in a few hrs., poorly maintained materials, copious water intrusion roof deck & paper installed, insulation and interior gyp walls when exterior walls unfinished/closed.

    A real mell of a hess of construction issues apparently. Stickney(sp?) hasn't posted on the discussion since Feb 12th, started 3 discussions starting with this one on the 21st of Jan. within same frequently brings up litigation plans - 110 posts by this "stickney" then poof.

    "Wavy Roof Need Opinion..." at DIY site.
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    Pictures are "borrowed" not of the OP of this thread, hundreds of miles away.


    Last edited by H.G. Watson, Sr.; 03-18-2012 at 11:09 PM.

  29. #29
    Phil Brody's Avatar
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    Unhappy Re: What Could Cause This ?

    Solarboard edge swelling due to moisture intrusion, shortcoming of the product, advancement in technology failure.


  30. #30
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    Default Re: What Could Cause This ?

    Quote Originally Posted by John Kogel View Post
    Solarbord is OSB with a foil coating on only one side, right?
    The black lines along the trusses indicate moisture, possibly from rain leaking thru gaps before the shingles went on.
    My guess is they sheathed the roof and let the OSB get wet before the shingles went on. Moisture can't escape, because of the foil and shingles. Moisture enters the OSB at the edges.
    I agree, that's why the edges are so enlarged. It's the only spot moisture can get out or in.

    Randy Gordon, construction
    Michigan Building Inspector/Plan Reviewer

  31. #31
    Phil Brody's Avatar
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    Default Re: What Could Cause This ?

    Not sure it's the only place moisture can get in and out of but it is probably the most porous. Why manufacturers don't seal edges is beyond me.


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