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  1. #1
    Aaron Miller's Avatar
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    Default Grand Framing Green Tagged

    Of course, there's nothing wrong with this picture, right? Grand and the municipal inspector passed it off on my buyer as OK.

    Needless to say they are reframing this wall as I write this.

    Aaron

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    Last edited by Aaron Miller; 05-17-2008 at 12:14 PM.
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  2. #2
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    Default Re: Grand Framing Green Tagged

    So did the plumbers bash the studs over to make way for the ice maker rough-in?


  3. #3
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    Default Re: Grand Framing Green Tagged

    Dom,

    Now you know if it was the plumber he would have just CUT IT.

    It Might have Choked Artie But it ain't gone'a choke Stymie! Our Gang " The Pooch " (1932)
    Billy J. Stephens HI Service Memphis TN.

  4. #4
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    Default Re: Grand Framing Green Tagged

    Aaron,

    I know of the Grand way all to well. Their craftsmanship is not what it used to be.


  5. #5
    Martin lehman's Avatar
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    Default Re: Grand Framing Green Tagged

    Did they cut the stud or did the hit it with a hammer moving to the right??
    It's hard to tell in the photo...good catch.


  6. #6
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    Default Re: Grand Framing Green Tagged

    Aaron,

    What's on the stud by the dryer vent cutout?

    It Might have Choked Artie But it ain't gone'a choke Stymie! Our Gang " The Pooch " (1932)
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  7. #7
    Richard Rushing's Avatar
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    Default Re: Grand Framing Green Tagged

    I can hear it now:
    Builder: "But, but... I got a green-tag!"
    or

    "Yeah, I know... I was going to go ahead and fix that in the morning"

    rr


  8. #8
    Aaron Miller's Avatar
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    Default Re: Grand Framing Green Tagged

    To All of the Above:

    The plumber, it seems (for once), was not the rub here. They purposely framed it around the ice maker hose bib. Not a single peen mark on the studs; no bent nails, nothing. Perfectly toe-nailed 3" off layout. Doesn't matter one whit that this triple stud is supporting a huge laminated beam which supports the edge of the 2nd floor and the roof. Grand, indeed!

    Unfortunately for this subdivision super, the majority of these houses are selling to a group of engineers from a country where they really know how to educate their engineers (not all immigration is a bad thing), and they have all hired me. OK, maybe not all, but I have done 10 inspection on the same two streets in the last month and have 7 more scheduled.

    Last week, while inspecting another of these, I observed at the house next door a little mini-seminar for the subs being performed by the super covering all of the things found in my reports: roofing, weep holes, . . .a very long list. They will not learn all of these before the building is done, even if they try. But, maybe they'll learn something?

    Someone asked what's on the stud next to the dryer vent? Other than the dryer receptacle there's some writing in black paint. Probably stuff painted on the pallet of studs before the band was broken . . . maybe an ode to craftsmanship penned by some out-of-work carpenter supplanted by minimum wage carpinteros (not all immigration is a good thing)?

    Aaron


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    Default Re: Grand Framing Green Tagged

    What is Grand? Is that a local builder?

    Quote Originally Posted by Aaron Miller View Post
    The plumber, it seems (for once), was not the rub here. They purposely framed it around the ice maker hose bib. Not a single peen mark on the studs; no bent nails, nothing. Perfectly toe-nailed 3" off layout.
    The framers framed around the ice maker box? Interesting. I have never seen an ice maker box installed before the framing.

    Quote Originally Posted by Aaron Miller View Post
    Doesn't matter one whit that this triple stud is supporting a huge laminated beam which supports the edge of the 2nd floor and the roof. Grand, indeed!
    Are you sure that is a load-bearing wall? It looks to me that only the triple stud is load bearing.

    Does this triple stud appear on the plans or was it "framer designed"? Which brings up another question:

    Is there a footing under this triple stud? If there is no footing I would be concerned about that.

    "Baseball is like church. Many attend but few understand." Leo Durocher
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  10. #10
    Aaron Miller's Avatar
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    Default Re: Grand Framing Green Tagged

    Quote Originally Posted by Bruce Breedlove View Post
    What is Grand? Is that a local builder?



    The framers framed around the ice maker box? Interesting. I have never seen an ice maker box installed before the framing.



    Are you sure that is a load-bearing wall? It looks to me that only the triple stud is load bearing.

    Does this triple stud appear on the plans or was it "framer designed"? Which brings up another question:

    Is there a footing under this triple stud? If there is no footing I would be concerned about that.
    Bruce:

    Maybe where you're from they have the construction documents on site. Not here, unless the house is a true custom home and the builder just forgot to roll them up and put them back into his truck.

    As to the wall load, if a beam sits atop a wall, that wall is load-bearing. the fact that it may or not be situated perpendicular to the ciling joists is moot.

    Though the icemaker bib obx itself was not there when the walls were framed, the plumbing for it was. . .

    Aaron


  11. #11
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    Default Re: Grand Framing Green Tagged

    Gotcha. I keep forgetting that Texas is the land of slabs where the plumbing is in place before the framers arrive.

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  12. #12
    Aaron Miller's Avatar
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    Default Re: Grand Framing Green Tagged

    Quote Originally Posted by Bruce Breedlove View Post
    Gotcha. I keep forgetting that Texas is the land of slabs where the plumbing is in place before the framers arrive.
    Bruce:

    There is just so much stuff that is done here in a really strange fashion or order that the band width does not exist to list it all . . .

    That is why they make Patron SilverŪ . . .

    Aaron


  13. #13
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    Default Re: Grand Framing Green Tagged

    Around here basements are common. The water is typically stubbed up in the mechanical room and from there the supply plumbing is run through the framed walls.

    They don't do that in Texas? Do they run all the supply piping in the slab? That just doesn't seem right to me. It seems a lot easier to me to plumb a pipe to a location through framed walls than stubbing it up inside a 3 1/2" wall. (Very easy to end up outside the wall and have to jackhammer out concrete to move the pipe.) Plus the fact that it is a lot easier to repair a leaking supply pipe in a framed wall than one in a slab.

    "Baseball is like church. Many attend but few understand." Leo Durocher
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  14. #14
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    Default Re: Grand Framing Green Tagged

    Bruce, standard practice is to rough in everything in the slab. It is easy to miss the right spot but there is really no other option. You have to put the drains into slab at the right locations so the supply lines are easy after that. All supply connections are made above the slab and home run style to each fixture location.
    As a percentage, we get very few leaks under slabs unless there is unusual movement. Very tough to find and fix if you do get one though.

    Jim Luttrall
    www.MrInspector.net
    Dallas, Texas

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    Default Re: Grand Framing Green Tagged

    Quote Originally Posted by Jim Luttrall View Post
    Bruce, standard practice is to rough in everything in the slab. It is easy to miss the right spot but there is really no other option.
    One option is to run the supply piping through the framed walls. But I guess that's not how it's done in Texas. And that's fine with me. I guess it's also good for the concrete repair businesss.

    "Baseball is like church. Many attend but few understand." Leo Durocher
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    www.avaloninspection.com

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    Default Re: Grand Framing Green Tagged

    Quote Originally Posted by Jim Luttrall View Post
    Very tough to find and fix if you do get one though.
    You have to arrive 30 minutes early. They'd "trenched per the foreman" 14' to get to the bathroom supplies and drains.

    Then the home owner tried to pawn off a two year old SE letter, to approve the work done that day, to my client.

    They found another house.

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  17. #17
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    Default Re: Grand Framing Green Tagged

    Quote Originally Posted by Bruce Breedlove View Post
    They don't do that in Texas? Do they run all the supply piping in the slab? That just doesn't seem right to me. It seems a lot easier to me .
    Bruce,

    Think about it No Crawl Space no snakes,spiders,Leaking Sewage,Mold ect.

    Did a few last week no HVAC,Water Heater,Plumbing,Service Panel, Toilets ect or Crawl Space.

    I was almost clean when I got back home

    Down Side Lots of Pictures of Broken and missing stuff

    Last edited by Billy Stephens; 10-03-2007 at 07:20 PM. Reason: Down Side
    It Might have Choked Artie But it ain't gone'a choke Stymie! Our Gang " The Pooch " (1932)
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