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  1. #1
    Join Date
    Dec 2008
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    Erwin, TN
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    187

    Default FLOOR JOIST to ADDITION SEEM UNSOUND

    Addition to house had the floor joist 2x8 tied into original joist going to opposite way, with no bracing underneath. Locked like to me the original floor joist were slightly raised. Outside wall had been torn down and garage with bedroom above was added beside the original basement garage. Hope these pictures help. Would this be structurally sound.

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  2. #2
    Join Date
    Mar 2012
    Location
    Lansdale, PA
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    876

    Default Re: FLOOR JOIST to ADDITION SEEM UNSOUND

    Quote Originally Posted by Sam Morris View Post
    Addition to house had the floor joist 2x8 tied into original joist going to opposite way, with no bracing underneath. Locked like to me the original floor joist were slightly raised. Outside wall had been torn down and garage with bedroom above was added beside the original basement garage. Hope these pictures help. Would this be structurally sound.
    Its hard to tell exactly what I am seeing there. I see where the wall was removed and where the new joists tie into a double band joist. What am I seeing between the double band joist and the plate? Are these short lengths of joists? Is there a wall above the area where the foundation wall was removed? How are the new joists attached to the band joists?

    The attachment of the new joists to the band joists is wrong if toe-nailed or end-nailed. The double band joist could be undersized for the span. I see a beam and column supporting the plate, but if there is a wall above this then the span is an issue. If the band joists are supported by short joists cantilevered from the original framing, then that is wrong. Unless I am not seeing things correctly, this looks like a mess.


  3. #3
    Join Date
    Dec 2008
    Location
    Erwin, TN
    Posts
    187

    Default Re: FLOOR JOIST to ADDITION SEEM UNSOUND

    Quote Originally Posted by Mark Reinmiller View Post
    Its hard to tell exactly what I am seeing there. I see where the wall was removed and where the new joists tie into a double band joist. What am I seeing between the double band joist and the plate? Are these short lengths of joists? Is there a wall above the area where the foundation wall was removed? How are the new joists attached to the band joists?

    The attachment of the new joists to the band joists is wrong if toe-nailed or end-nailed. The double band joist could be undersized for the span. I see a beam and column supporting the plate, but if there is a wall above this then the span is an issue. If the band joists are supported by short joists cantilevered from the original framing, then that is wrong. Unless I am not seeing things correctly, this looks like a mess.
    Yes, short length 2x8's for bracing. Theres a bathroom above were the PVC drain goes up to a long vanity, the addition has a master bedroom and master bath above with a wall around area of double band joists. Mess yes?


  4. #4
    Join Date
    Jul 2010
    Location
    Wisconsin
    Posts
    274

    Default Re: FLOOR JOIST to ADDITION SEEM UNSOUND

    Based on a quick look it is failure waiting to happen, maybe not collapse, but sag and cracking. Looks like the old double 2x beam was resting on the old exterior wall that was removed and now is supported on top of a flat 2x. There are no joist hangers to be found. And, it looks like the new double 2x beam (old rim joist) spans to far, but I don't know all the details. I do know I would be calling for calculations to prove it works.

    The short joists, I'm guessing, are the cripples that were originally installed between the two parallel joists at the end of typical floor framing.


  5. #5
    Join Date
    Nov 2011
    Location
    Oregon, USA
    Posts
    333

    Default Re: FLOOR JOIST to ADDITION SEEM UNSOUND

    Hard to believe that conglomeration was inspected and approved by the local AHJ. More inspectors asleep at the wheel?

    For peace of mind, at least retrofitting some joist hangers would be in order, to eliminate the eventual failure of the toe-nailed joists sure to happen otherwise.


  6. #6
    Join Date
    Jul 2009
    Location
    CT
    Posts
    30

    Default Re: FLOOR JOIST to ADDITION SEEM UNSOUND

    Quote Originally Posted by Sam Morris View Post
    Addition to house had the floor joist 2x8 tied into original joist going to opposite way, with no bracing underneath. Locked like to me the original floor joist were slightly raised. Outside wall had been torn down and garage with bedroom above was added beside the original basement garage. Hope these pictures help. Would this be structurally sound.
    I know your question was structural concerns, and since others have addressed that, I must point out: Living area above the garage requires fire code rated drywall installation of ceilings and any walls of garage abutting living space around here. Heck, if they installed a proper fire rated barrier no one would be able to see the crap job they did with the framing.
    Curt


  7. #7
    Join Date
    Mar 2007
    Location
    Connecticut
    Posts
    1,828

    Default Re: FLOOR JOIST to ADDITION SEEM UNSOUND

    Among all the other stuff. If they are listing the house as having a garage. You should ask for one. What they are giving you there is a basement with a garage door.


  8. #8
    Join Date
    Oct 2011
    Location
    Minneapolis, MN
    Posts
    780

    Default Re: FLOOR JOIST to ADDITION SEEM UNSOUND

    That is just scary. What is the wall over the garage door resting on? The brick veneer? And it looks like there's a beam (beam? major supporting area - it has double 2X8s together plus blocking) in the old part that has an end resting on that flat 2X8. Photo 2, right side. Kinda strange. Was that part with the cripples ornamental? I don't see how it could have been a cantilevered exterior wall, but who knows? The whole thing's a mess.

    Do not think of knocking out another person's brains because he differs in opinion from you. It would be as rational to knock yourself on the head because you differ from yourself ten years ago.
    - James Burgh, 1754.

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