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  1. #1
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    Default Valley Rafters to short?

    Hello everyone, I'm having more issues with my builder again (all outlined in another post titled "questionable framing). He's cut the valley rafters to short. Aren't valley rafters supposed to extend from the ridge all the way down to the top plate?

    Please look at what this builder has done and how he's tried to fix one of the valley rafters by simply attaching some OSB material to its end. To make things worse, aside from the rafters being too short, they weren't lined up correctly. If the valley rafters were extended they'd hit the quadruple roof truss instead of landing and resting on the outside wall as designed.

    In this picture, the red lines are the quadruple roof truss, the blue lines are where the valley rafters are now, and the green dotted line are where they should have been.

    What do you guys think?

    Thanks

    Paul

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  2. #2
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    Nov 2011
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    Default Re: Valley Rafters to short?

    Looks like a mess to me. But you picked the builder.


    Follow the advice given in the other post.


  3. #3

    Default Re: Valley Rafters to short?

    Quote Originally Posted by Paul Manicone View Post
    Hello everyone, I'm having more issues with my builder again (all outlined in another post titled "questionable framing). He's cut the valley rafters to short. Aren't valley rafters supposed to extend from the ridge all the way down to the top plate?

    Please look at what this builder has done and how he's tried to fix one of the valley rafters by simply attaching some OSB material to its end. To make things worse, aside from the rafters being too short, they weren't lined up correctly. If the valley rafters were extended they'd hit the quadruple roof truss instead of landing and resting on the outside wall as designed.

    In this picture, the red lines are the quadruple roof truss, the blue lines are where the valley rafters are now, and the green dotted line are where they should have been.

    What do you guys think?

    Thanks

    Paul
    Paul,
    You need to get a structural engineer involved in this before it goes any further!!


  4. #4
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    MONTREAL QUEBEC-CANADA
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    1,840

    Default Re: Valley Rafters to short?

    Quote Originally Posted by Paul Manicone View Post
    Hello everyone, I'm having more issues with my builder again (all outlined in another post titled "questionable framing). He's cut the valley rafters to short. Aren't valley rafters supposed to extend from the ridge all the way down to the top plate?

    Please look at what this builder has done and how he's tried to fix one of the valley rafters by simply attaching some OSB material to its end. To make things worse, aside from the rafters being too short, they weren't lined up correctly. If the valley rafters were extended they'd hit the quadruple roof truss instead of landing and resting on the outside wall as designed.

    In this picture, the red lines are the quadruple roof truss, the blue lines are where the valley rafters are now, and the green dotted line are where they should have been.

    What do you guys think?

    Thanks

    Paul
    Maybe a mechanical bracket will hold it in place but it does appear not to be contacting the full surface of of the laminated gable end. That would leave it suseptable to movement under load.
    I am not a GC nor have I helped buildt homes for over 30 years.
    I will let others chime in.
    Get a second opion. Its your money your spending remember!

    Robert Young's Montreal Home Inspection Services Inc.
    Call (514) 489-1887 or (514) 441-3732
    Our Motto; Putting information where you need it most, "In your hands.

  5. #5
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    Feb 2013
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    Default Re: Valley Rafters to short?

    That framing looks very troubling to me , and needs to be supported and posted down to the foundation. I'm a GC and engineer on LI so I am more than familiar with what is correct.


  6. #6
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    Mar 2007
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    Spring Hill (Nashville), TN
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    5,847

    Default Re: Valley Rafters to short?

    Is this home being built from detailed Blueprints? It looks like the framer/builder is shooting from the hip.

    Scott Patterson, ACI
    Spring Hill, TN
    www.traceinspections.com

  7. #7
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    Nov 2010
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    Safety Harbor, FL
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    Default Re: Valley Rafters to short?

    The consequences of Hurricane Sandy, all the reputable builders are deployed elsewhere.


  8. #8
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    Default Re: Valley Rafters to short?

    Quote Originally Posted by Jim Abram View Post
    Paul - I reviewed the past post pictures. The framing is a mess . If the framing is this bad what will the rest of the work be like .
    I would hire a residential construction expert or consultant to be your advocate. There is no need for a structural engineer at this point, as it is quite obvious that the framing does not conform to accepted standards.
    The builder won't give us our money back so we've had no choice but to commence legal action. You're correct about having problems with the other trades too, including the mason who apparently doesn't know how to lay a brick wall. In a span of about only 6 feet, the wall was bowed in by about 4 inches. The builder had no choice but to knock down the newly installed three story brick wall and hire another mason. It's uncomfortable to know that they are "practicing" on our new home.

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  9. #9
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    Default Re: Valley Rafters to short?

    Here are some more disturbing picture that weren't available when I made my prior post ("Questionable Framing). If you've read it, you may remember that the builder didn't build the home square, laying the 2nd floor on top of the 1st floor with an overhang. As a result, the house "expands" at the back of the house. This wasn't a problem when the framing crew stick built these areas by hand, but when it came time to install the precut floor trusses, they weren't nearly long enough, creating a terrible gap between the end each truss and the sheathing.

    These photos show a double horizontal ribbon the framer installed on the top part of the trusses, confirming that the bottom portion is actually about 2 inches away from the exterior sheathing. As a result the floor trusses are barely resting on the double top plate. Please let me know what you guys think of this, the information submitted on here only strengthens my position of trying to get our money refunded.

    Thanks to all of you.

    Paul

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  10. #10
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    Default Re: Valley Rafters to short?

    There are issues everywhere. Why don't you have the architect go out and see if this structure can be saved. Seems like you have some serious delays here.


  11. #11
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    Jun 2009
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    Port Dover, Ontario, Canada
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    Default Re: Valley Rafters to short?

    "The builder won't give us our money back so we've had no choice but to commence legal action. You're correct about having problems with the other trades too, including the mason who apparently doesn't know how to lay a brick wall. In a span of about only 6 feet, the wall was bowed in by about 4 inches. The builder had no choice but to knock down the newly installed three story brick wall and hire another mason. It's uncomfortable to know that they are "practicing" on our new home."


    They are not Doctors. They are not supposed to be "practising".
    They were supposed to serve an apprenticeship under a qualified carpenter not some guy who was just a nail banger.
    This is the biggest problem in my opinion with the building industry today. You have some contractors with unqualified people knocking homes and other structures together without enough oversight from the local building inspectors.
    The local building inspection department may be a source of help for you.




  12. #12
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    Hercules, CA
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    Default Re: Valley Rafters too short?

    Quote Originally Posted by Paul Manicone View Post
    The builder won't give us our money back so we've had no choice but to commence legal action. You're correct about having problems with the other trades too, including the mason who apparently doesn't know how to lay a brick wall. In a span of about only 6 feet, the wall was bowed in by about 4 inches. The builder had no choice but to knock down the newly installed three story brick wall and hire another mason. It's uncomfortable to know that they are "practicing" on our new home.
    Where are the veneer ties (IRC 703.7)? Doesn't the State you live in license contractors? If so why haven't you filed a complaint? I'm not sure why you have put up with this so long!

    Thom Huggett, PE, SE, CBO

  13. #13
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    Default Re: Valley Rafters too short?

    Quote Originally Posted by Thom Huggett View Post
    Where are the veneer ties (IRC 703.7)? Doesn't the State you live in license contractors? If so why haven't you filed a complaint? I'm not sure why you have put up with this so long!
    Here are the ties, of course not spaced according to code. They may have come down with the wall but that would mean they weren't in a stud to begin with. The problem we're facing right now is he has our money, it's not that easy to get back once you write that check. Attorneys are now involved. It's just one big mess.

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  14. #14
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    Default Re: Valley Rafters to short?

    Sorry to see a mess...but thanks for sharing the pics.
    Has the builder called the BI for the framing? No idea what code is in your area, but here, a framing inspection is required, which would put any BI worth their salt into a tizzy (need his deficiency list to bolster your claim). I'd look at all column supports and follow the path upward to see there is bearing all the way to top (bearing here indicates 3-1/2 for beams/columns (min), 1-1/2 for joists and your trusses will also have specs for bearing - find out who made them and get specs). Valley ridge must have bearing or an engineered solution (specially designed hanger/bracket). No idea why builder covered valley ridge - truss intersection with OSB. Were you planning to get spray foam insulation up there?
    Also noticed mold in pics...not a fan of OSB where I live...too wet. Seems like they've been at this disaster for some time...
    I'd be curious why stone/brick wall was out so much...check framed walls for plumb.


  15. #15
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    Default Re: Valley Rafters to short?

    Quote Originally Posted by Paul Manicone View Post
    The builder won't give us our money back so we've had no choice but to commence legal action.
    Paul,

    That is why the information you provide here can come back and bite you in the butt.

    And none of us here, not having seen the house in person, are actually able to answer your questions.

    You REALLY ... REALLY ... and I mean REALLY do need to hire LOCAL expert to help you, and don't send them photos, find out what they charge, write a check, and have them go out to the house and DOCUMENT EVERYTHING they see (even the stuff they see which might not look bad right then but which might be bad later or might help define "how bad" something else is.

    Anything and everything you post here could come back to hurt your case if in the wrong hands.

    Jerry Peck, Construction / Litigation Consultant
    Construction Litigation Consultants, LLC ( www.ConstructionLitigationConsultants.com )
    www.AskCodeMan.com

  16. #16
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    Default Re: Valley Rafters to short?

    Quote Originally Posted by Jerry Peck View Post
    Paul,

    That is why the information you provide here can come back and bite you in the butt.

    And none of us here, not having seen the house in person, are actually able to answer your questions.

    You REALLY ... REALLY ... and I mean REALLY do need to hire LOCAL expert to help you, and don't send them photos, find out what they charge, write a check, and have them go out to the house and DOCUMENT EVERYTHING they see (even the stuff they see which might not look bad right then but which might be bad later or might help define "how bad" something else is.

    Anything and everything you post here could come back to hurt your case if in the wrong hands.
    Thanks for the advice. Can anyone recommend a local consultant in the Charlotte NC area?


  17. #17
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    Default Re: Valley Rafters to short?

    Quote Originally Posted by Paul Manicone View Post
    Thanks for the advice. Can anyone recommend a local consultant in the Charlotte NC area?
    What about the framing consultant, a P.E., that Mike Schulz referred you to back in January, on the other thread? Did he not work out (as you mentioned you were going to email him then)?


  18. #18
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    Default Re: Valley Rafters to short?

    Steven Turetsky is in New York, not sure what part of the state he is in or if he is in the NYC area?

    Last edited by Jerry Peck; 03-10-2014 at 08:27 PM. Reason: needed to spell the name correctly
    Jerry Peck, Construction / Litigation Consultant
    Construction Litigation Consultants, LLC ( www.ConstructionLitigationConsultants.com )
    www.AskCodeMan.com

  19. #19
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    Default Re: Valley Rafters to short?

    Mr. Peck,
    Sure wish you'd respond using the quote feature. Hard to guess who or what you're talking about. The previous thread I referred to gave the contact info for a P.E. in Charlotte, NC, which is where the OP's problem house is located.


  20. #20
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    Default Re: Valley Rafters to short?

    If you want to get things fixed correctly and to document mistakes made by the builder so that you can get compensated possible extra expenses you do need a structural engineer familiar with wood frame construction.

    Sometimes fixes for mistakes are relatively easy and sometimes not. It is hard to tell from the photos, but a fix using OSB is probably not correct.

    I am a P.E. and I would not trust this builder.


  21. #21
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    Default Re: Valley Rafters to short?

    Quote Originally Posted by BridgeMan View Post
    What about the framing consultant, a P.E., that Mike Schulz referred you to back in January, on the other thread? Did he not work out (as you mentioned you were going to email him then)?
    Yes, I emailed him, he seemed nice and professional, but for whatever reason he decided not to get involved.


  22. #22
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    Default Re: Valley Rafters to short?

    Quote Originally Posted by BridgeMan View Post
    Mr. Peck,
    Sure wish you'd respond using the quote feature. Hard to guess who or what you're talking about. The previous thread I referred to gave the contact info for a P.E. in Charlotte, NC, which is where the OP's problem house is located.
    "The previous thread I referred to gave the contact info for a P.E. in Charlotte, NC, which is where the OP's problem house is located."

    I had forgotten the house he is having problems with is in NC, Steven is in New York, no wonder he would not be replying.

    I remember that recommendation, don't know how it turned out, though.

    Jerry Peck, Construction / Litigation Consultant
    Construction Litigation Consultants, LLC ( www.ConstructionLitigationConsultants.com )
    www.AskCodeMan.com

  23. #23
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    Default Re: Valley Rafters to short?

    Quote Originally Posted by Jerry Peck View Post
    "The previous thread I referred to gave the contact info for a P.E. in Charlotte, NC, which is where the OP's problem house is located."

    I had forgotten the house he is having problems with is in NC, Steven is in New York, no wonder he would not be replying.

    I remember that recommendation, don't know how it turned out, though.
    Yes, I emailed him, he seemed nice and professional, but for whatever reason he decided not to get involved.


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