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  1. #1
    Bob Sisson's Avatar
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    Exclamation Need Opinions - Unsupported Sill Plate

    I spotted this unsupported Sill plate in a Pre-drywall.

    The PT 2x8 is sitting on the lip of the foundation. The 2x4 which the Sunken floor I-Joists sit on rests on the UNSUPPORTED section of the 2x8. The entire assembly has already started to tip and settle. There is NOTHING under the back section of that 2x8 but air. It looks to me like it would be perfectly happy to settle about another inch or so, and then maybe (worst case) slip into the void...

    The builder has said VERBALLY "don't know how to fix it" AND "We don't think it will be a problem"

    I have told my client to ask for a WRITTEN response on the builders letter head signed by a principle and stamped by an architect or CE.

    Any county type building officials wish to weigh in, or any architects/CE's types? I would love to give my client some opinions from uninterested parties.

    Bob

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  2. #2
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    Default More pictures

    Some more pictures

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  3. #3
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    Default Re: Need Opinions - Unsupported Sill Plate

    Quote Originally Posted by Bob Sisson View Post
    The builder has said VERBALLY "don't know how to fix it" AND "We don't think it will be a problem"
    Bob,

    What the builder *really said* was "I know how to fix it, and it ain't gonna be cheap, so, no, we don't think it will be a problem".

    Of course, when a builder says "we don't think" - that is one thing you can believe them saying.

    When you consider that the TJI are bearing on a 2x4 which is bearing on the unsupported half of the 2x8, I would not be surprised if that 2x8 splits down the center and falls to the back side into the void.

    "I have told my client to ask for a WRITTEN response on the builders letter head signed by a principle and stamped by an architect or CE."

    Forget about a letter on the builder's letterhead, get one from a PE (structural engineer), I would not even want one from an architect - got to be someone trained and licensed/registered in structural engineering.

    Also note that when that does break and fall over, those TJI are going to crush those NM cables.

    Least we forget that there is a lot of non-PT wood in contact with concrete also.

    Jerry Peck, Construction / Litigation Consultant
    Construction Litigation Consultants, LLC ( www.ConstructionLitigationConsultants.com )
    www.AskCodeMan.com

  4. #4
    Bob Sisson's Avatar
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    Default Re: Need Opinions - Unsupported Sill Plate

    The BOTTOM piece of wood is PT... about the only thing right in the photo...

    The rest of the wood does not touch the concrete....

    I agree in principle about the PE... but so long as someone from the company, who has the authority, accepts responsibility it writing, I will be reasonably happy...

    I routinely flag the water meter and shutoff boards as they are WELL below grade... The AHJ always lets them go... my question to them is always "What other rules would you like me to ignore??"

    Bob

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  5. #5
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    Default Re: Need Opinions - Unsupported Sill Plate

    Quote Originally Posted by Bob Sisson View Post
    The BOTTOM piece of wood is PT... about the only thing right in the photo...

    The rest of the wood does not touch the concrete....
    In the photo it looked they touched that concrete to the left, probably just an optical illusion then.

    I agree in principle about the PE... but so long as someone from the company, who has the authority, accepts responsibility it writing, I will be reasonably happy...
    Maybe, but will they have in$urance or a bond to back it up? Or will it just be a piece of paper 'worth the price of the paper it is written on', and too stiff to use for ... ?

    Last edited by Jerry Peck; 04-02-2008 at 06:04 PM.
    Jerry Peck, Construction / Litigation Consultant
    Construction Litigation Consultants, LLC ( www.ConstructionLitigationConsultants.com )
    www.AskCodeMan.com

  6. #6
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    Exclamation Re: Need Opinions - Unsupported Sill Plate

    Have you looked at the blueprints? How does this compare? Have there been any code inspections done on this phase? A letter from a PE would be the minimum to accept. It's definitely a problem, and it isn't going to get better over time, unless it is corrected. Your client may very well need an attorney, and it would not be a bad idea to suggest that they consult one. It is time to review the contract with the builder.

    Randall Aldering GHI BAOM MSM
    Housesmithe Inspection
    www.housesmithe.com

  7. #7
    Bob Sisson's Avatar
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    Default Re: Need Opinions - Unsupported Sill Plate

    Plans onsite, are you out of your mind... someone might steal them, or even worse, refer to them... (Yes I noted that there were no plans)

    None of the Code inspections had been done when I was there, or at least none had been filed and there were no stickers on the windows as is typical in my area.


  8. #8
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    Default Re: Need Opinions - Unsupported Sill Plate

    Bob
    Jerry P covered it pretty thoroughly and I'd go with his advice. Anybody in this profession for any length of time has seen some pretty amazing stuff in what folks can do to a residential dwelling and the bottom line is never, ever under-estimate the ignorance of your fellow man, especially when they either build homes or modify them and there chief source of technical construction advice is trolled from the morons staffing the big box stores who have previously failed in their attempt to make it in the construction industry................

    Jerry McCarthy
    Building Code/ Construction Consultant

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