Post tension cable

Akhil Dwivedi · 03-31-2010, 01:40 PM

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Nolan Kienitz · 03-31-2010, 08:50 PM

Contact an individual certified by the Post Tensioning Institute for Level 1 Foundation Inspections and have him review and advise.

Your image seems to appear that the P-T cable has been "protruding" for some time due to the rust observed.

It may have never been properly cut off when the slab P-T cables were stressed at the time of original construction.

All P-T cable ends are supposed to be cut flush with the slab and sealed so no water/moisture can enter the end of the stranded cables and wick its way further down the cable inside the sheath that surrounds it.

If this happens the cable can rust and eventually fail.

The cable(s) can be replaced and restressed to correct.

Ergo ... you need a PTI certified inspector to review.

A.D. Miller · 04-01-2010, 04:10 AM

The repair for this is simple, but as NK advised, it is not a DIY project. The tendon should have been cut, capped, and covered with grout once it was tensioned. It was not. At this point a PTI-certified installer will trim the tendon, sandblast it and the port it is located in, and cover it with a non-shrink grout intended for this purpose.

This is the comment I would put in my report:

A post-tension tendon strand end was observed in the tendon pocket. This must be repaired to prevent further corrosion. You are strongly urged to have this condition further evaluated by a licensed professional structural engineer as per Post-Tensioning Institute’s “Post-Tensioning Manual”, 6th Edition, 20.3: POST CONSTRUCTION INSPECTION – Inspection of post-tensioned structures during service should be done on a periodic basis to assess the need for any preventative maintenance . . . Inspections should focus on concrete deterioration or other conditions that could expose the prestressing steel or other tendon components to corrosion. Structures with tendons that have been exposed, or tendons that appear to be corroded or broken, should be evaluated by an experienced engineer to determine if the structural integrity or capacity of the affected concrete member has been compromised.”

Ted Menelly · 04-01-2010, 01:21 PM

Originally Posted by A.D. Miller

The repair for this is simple, but as NK advised, it is not a DIY project. The tendon should have been cut, capped, and covered with grout once it was tensioned. It was not. At this point a PTI-certified installer will trim the tendon, sandblast it and the port it is located in, and cover it with a non-shrink grout intended for this purpose.

This is the comment I would put in my report:

A post-tension tendon strand end was observed in the tendon pocket. This must be repaired to prevent further corrosion. You are strongly urged to have this condition further evaluated by a licensed professional structural engineer as per Post-Tensioning Institute’s “Post-Tensioning Manual”, 6th Edition, 20.3: POST CONSTRUCTION INSPECTION – Inspection of post-tensioned structures during service should be done on a periodic basis to assess the need for any preventative maintenance . . . Inspections should focus on concrete deterioration or other conditions that could expose the prestressing steel or other tendon components to corrosion. Structures with tendons that have been exposed, or tendons that appear to be corroded or broken, should be evaluated by an experienced engineer to determine if the structural integrity or capacity of the affected concrete member has been compromised.”

I love what you said about the repair needed but then the highlight

Wasn't that just a little deep for one cable end that was never cut off ?

Yeah yeah, I know, cover your backside and blah blah blah.

Still I think the opinion and deferring to an engineer was a smig deep.

If nothing else was discovered in the home as far as movement goes I kind of doubt I would have written all that in there. Now if anything else was found then that would have been a different story.

As far as always recommending and engineer.....not. If what is going on is slight and not convaluted then I suggest a foundation repair company come in. Many a time that I have suggested a foundation company the foundation companies measurements are just not telling the whole story and then the foundation company defers it to an engineer.

This whole send in the engineers for a few hundred is way over blown. After all are we not suppose to give our opinion on foundations here in the land of Democratic wannabees. Thats right we are suppose to write things because someone else like a lawyer might read the report..................................and. I could care less who reads my report afterward. The clients have no doubt what direction to take after reading my reports.

If you suggest an engineer for every non cut or exposed cable end then engineers in Texas must be happy you were born and the client out about 400 just for further review only to have to get a foundation company in to do the work anyway.

You live a very frightful life by the sounds of it. I know you or others may have been sued. I for one never have and can almost guaranty I won't be. Sometimes to much is simply to much. When one gets that deep about every item in a home inspection report you are asking for it to be put under a microscope and someone will be bound and determined to blow it apart to get a screen on the left rear dining room window replaced.

The idea that one has to read a short novel to find a few very simple concerns is far beyond my thick and more than likely ignorant mind I guess, but as others have said...to each his own. I know that is about impossible to believe but I do have some faults

It appears to be working well for you. I applaud your thoroughness. I actually applaud all your efforts as a home inspector. No, I am certainly not going to go into hug mode so get over it

A.D. Miller · 04-01-2010, 01:50 PM

Wasn't that just a little deep for one cable end that was never cut off ?

Yeah yeah, I know, cover your backside and blah blah blah.

TM: Nope, it was written that way to keep hte tirebiters on this forum from frothing at the mouth.

As far as always recommending and engineer.....not.

TM: Call it like you see it. The code says defer to an engineer, and that is what I do.

You live a very frightful life by the sounds of it.

TM: Just the contrary. Little if anything frightens me.

but I do have some faults

TM: You don't say?

**Rick Hurst** · 04-01-2010, 03:52 PM

Originally Posted by Ted Menelly

You live a very frightful life by the sounds of it. I know you or others may have been sued. I for one never have and can almost guaranty I won't be.

Ted, Are you serious dude? Making such a comment, you'll probably get served papers tomm. if not this afternoon.

Don't answer if the doorbell rings.

rick

**Jerry Peck** · 04-01-2010, 06:49 PM

What I see is the post tension end WAS cut off and has pulled outward (see that concrete/stucco/whatever) which has also been knocked outward, and has probably been out there so long it has rusted like that.

Probably a cut/broken tendon.

If the tendon 'had not been cut off' it would be MUCH LONGER. They do not cut them THAT short until after they have tensioned the cables, it would be very difficult to get the heads on there and grip the cable enough to pull it and tension it at that short of a length.

I am with Aaron, except that the structural engineer DOES NOT NEED TO BE TOLD TO EVALUATE IT, just to design appropriate repairs, which likely will include "finding where the cable is broken".

Ted Menelly · 04-01-2010, 08:39 PM

Originally Posted by Jerry Peck

What I see is the post tension end WAS cut off and has pulled outward (see that concrete/stucco/whatever) which has also been knocked outward, and has probably been out there so long it has rusted like that.

Probably a cut/broken tendon.

If the tendon 'had not been cut off' it would be MUCH LONGER. They do not cut them THAT short until after they have tensioned the cables, it would be very difficult to get the heads on there and grip the cable enough to pull it and tension it at that short of a length.

I am with Aaron, except that the structural engineer DOES NOT NEED TO BE TOLD TO EVALUATE IT, just to design appropriate repairs, which likely will include "finding where the cable is broken".

Which is evaluating....is it not. Every tradesman that comes behind any inspector is going to do their own evaluation before pricing or repairing anything. I just do not understand why you always say that the next person inline does not need to evaluate anything....just fix it or design repairs......everyone will evaluate first. They are certainly not just going to take what you, me, Arron or anyone's written word on the mater. They will evaluate it themselves. Soooo, there is nothing wrong with saying that further evaluation by the appropriate tradesman or professional should take place.....they will anyway.

**Jerry Peck** · 04-01-2010, 09:11 PM

Originally Posted by Ted Menelly

Soooo, there is nothing wrong with saying that further evaluation by the appropriate tradesman or professional should take place.....they will anyway.

There is something wrong with saying that, because YOU the HOME INSPECTOR made the EVALUATION, the contractor/engineer/etc. needs to make the REPAIRS AS NEEDED, and, naturally, no one in their right mind (or left mind) would start a repair without first LOOKING AT IT AND MAKING THEIR OWN EVALUATION of what conditions existed.

If you DEFER THE EVALUATION to the contractor/engineer/etc. you are setting yourself up to eat their dust when they say "NO PROBLEM" - YOU cannot then come back and say 'THERE IS a problem" because YOU ... DEFERRED ... TO THEM.

That is why the home inspector should state what they see, then call for a repair of what they see and (wording can vary) "all other items found or created during those repairs", or, in the case of the engineer "design appropriate repairs".

A.D. Miller · 04-02-2010, 05:19 AM

Originally Posted by Rick Hurst

Ted, Are you serious dude? Making such a comment, you'll probably get served papers tomm. if not this afternoon.

Don't answer if the doorbell rings.

rick

RH: Go easy on TM, will ya'? He only does about 4 inspections per year, and all of them in Fort Worth. They don't have the money to sue. Even if they did, all of the real lawyers live in Dallas.

Richard Stanley · 04-02-2010, 06:15 AM

The visual leads me to believe the cable is broken and should be replaced.

**Paul Duffau** · 04-02-2010, 06:45 AM

Originally Posted by Akhil Dwivedi

Thank you all for the expert opinion.

I am really nervous as this is my first house and was built in 1995.

I bought this house 2 years ago.

Insurance company come back and say this is not covered.

Since you see this everyday, it is not a big deal for you guys.

For me it is nerve-racking.

Let me know if you know anyone in san diego I can get hold of.

I googled and find few but not comfortable going with.

Is there a site I can go to find structural engineers?

I would highly recommend the folks at Southern California Soils & Testing. They have outstanding engineers and excellent PT inspectors.

San Diego Office
6280 Riverdale Street
San Diego, CA 92120
(877) 215-4321

Hope this helps.

Paul Duffau
National Property Inspections
Lewiston, Idaho