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  1. #66
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    Default Re: Mike Holmes said we need an IR camera

    I have considered many times in investing in a IR camera. There is no doubt the IR camera will provide much more information about a homes condition vs. a conventional visual inspection. This is one of those situations were more info may do more harm than good. NO HOME IS PERFECT. In 22 years I haven't seen one yet. The knowledge and technology we, as HI's have, give us the ability to make almost every home appear undesirable to purchase or BAC (Bulldoze after closing). That is a power we must use wisely. Buyers are inherently skittish to start with and any hint of a problem with there intended purchase will send them running with little cause, regardless of how well (or kind) the report is written.

    I see the IR usage as more of a marketing and income generation tool.

    Marketing: Gain advantage on the competition. Increase IR sales for the camera manufacturer.

    Income Generation: Charge inspection clients several hundred dollars (possibly multiple times) just to show them that ever home they desire to buy appears as a money pit.

    Marketing and Income Generation may be good business but, is it necessarily good service.

    Inspection Referral SOC

  2. #67
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    Default Re: Mike Holmes said we need an IR camera

    Quote Originally Posted by Bob R View Post
    I have considered many times in investing in a IR camera. There is no doubt the IR camera will provide much more information about a homes condition vs. a conventional visual inspection. This is one of those situations were more info may do more harm than good. NO HOME IS PERFECT. In 22 years I haven't seen one yet. The knowledge and technology we, as HI's have, give us the ability to make almost every home appear undesirable to purchase or BAC (Bulldoze after closing). That is a power we must use wisely. Buyers are inherently skittish to start with and any hint of a problem with there intended purchase will send them running with little cause, regardless of how well (or kind) the report is written.

    I see the IR usage as more of a marketing and income generation tool.

    Marketing: Gain advantage on the competition. Increase IR sales for the camera manufacturer.

    Income Generation: Charge inspection clients several hundred dollars (possibly multiple times) just to show them that ever home they desire to buy appears as a money pit.

    Marketing and Income Generation may be good business but, is it necessarily good service.
    Bob,

    Hope I don't sound to negative about what you wrote, but ... you sound like a "real estate agent friendly" inspector, not one looking out for the interests of you client.

    Your clients interests is to find out and learn as much about the house as the inspector can. Helping keep it in perspective is one thing, 'not wanting to know' is totally out of the realm of what good inspectors do (should do).

    Jerry Peck, Construction / Litigation Consultant
    Construction Litigation Consultants, LLC ( www.ConstructionLitigationConsultants.com )
    www.AskCodeMan.com

  3. #68
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    Default Re: Mike Holmes said we need an IR camera

    Quote Originally Posted by Bob R View Post
    I have considered many times in investing in a IR camera. There is no doubt the IR camera will provide much more information about a homes condition vs. a conventional visual inspection. This is one of those situations were more info may do more harm than good. NO HOME IS PERFECT. In 22 years I haven't seen one yet. The knowledge and technology we, as HI's have, give us the ability to make almost every home appear undesirable to purchase or BAC (Bulldoze after closing). That is a power we must use wisely. Buyers are inherently skittish to start with and any hint of a problem with there intended purchase will send them running with little cause, regardless of how well (or kind) the report is written.

    I see the IR usage as more of a marketing and income generation tool.

    Marketing: Gain advantage on the competition. Increase IR sales for the camera manufacturer.

    Income Generation: Charge inspection clients several hundred dollars (possibly multiple times) just to show them that ever home they desire to buy appears as a money pit.

    Marketing and Income Generation may be good business but, is it necessarily good service.
    Bob,

    I was not going to respond at first, but I must.

    How dare you think that you have the authority to decide what a client should and should not know about the condition of a home they hired you to inspect?

    What other tools do you not have for fear that something that a client needs to know might be revealed?

    If this is truly you attitude, I can't help but to agree with Jerry.
    If this is truly your attitude, shame on you.
    Do you advertise on your website that you avoid certain testing because it may reveal something that may turn a buyer off?

    Steven Turetsky, UID #16000002314
    homeinspectionsnewyork.com
    eifsinspectionsnewyork.com

  4. #69
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    Default Re: Mike Holmes said we need an IR camera

    I bought an IR camera for one reason, I care about my clients. I don't advertize it, I don't wave it around and tell them how I am so much better than you.
    I use it the same way you use a moisture meter.
    But I can scan an entire room in 45 seconds.
    I can't tell you how many roof and window leaks I have found in the few months that I have been using it, But it's more than 6 or 7, and that equates to more than 6 or 7 call backs I would have gotten If i didn't use it.
    None of these leaks could have been detected without looking very closely at every inch of the room.
    And, after detecting the areas, and retesting with moisture meter, and getting back up on the roof, I was able to locate the exact location of the leaks.
    I can scan a finsihed basement and detect how well the wall system is working and if moisture is present.
    Isn't that something you want to know, and want your clients to know.
    Being in denial as many of you are, you are perpetuating the lawyer dilema that we are all hounded by.
    The lawyers don't want you to use IR, they would rather sue you.
    I spend as much time as it takes to do what i consider to be a proper inspection and report.
    It gets longer every year, I'm not getting any younger and I learn more every year.
    I do what it takes to protect my clients
    That protects me.
    Brokers, some like me, some don't, that's life
    I don't care if you use IR, but I think you should care more about your clients and less about your wallet.
    and I think MH should be sued for impersonating a home inspector
    This tread is over dead by now and i can't believe you old farts are so stubborn.
    10 years ago none of you would even take pictures
    Your taking pictures now aren't you?
    If your not taking over 100 pictiures per inspection.
    and saving them all.
    You are up for a lawsuit.
    A camera is a camera IR or standard.
    Use it or LOSE it.
    The lawsuit I mean


  5. #70
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    Default Re: Mike Holmes said we need an IR camera

    1. I see more iR cameras (used) for sale than I see inspectors admitting to using one.
    2. One will be sued for what you don't tell a client, whether you have an iR or not.
    3. There is no set requirement as to how many pictures one takes at an inspection. It could be zero it could be 200.
    4. For years I did not routinely include photos, now I do. But I do not take anywhere close to 100 pictures.
    5. Not taking pictures does not equate to lawsuit.
    6. A picture is just as liable to assist you as it is to aid the plaintiff.
    7. Inspectors who think their high tech equipment is going to save them should reexamine their liabilities.
    8. I see more misinformation about the ability of iR than I do factual information. (i.e. iR can find mould). It would appear marketing the abilities of iR outweigh truthfulness.
    9. My market does not support the iR need.
    10. There is no set right or wrong way in the inspection profession. Everyone seems to think the right way is there way. Its no different than those who say inspectors should not advertise their prices.

    Just my top ten. Your mileage and risk, and business decision may vary.


  6. #71
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    Default Re: Mike Holmes said we need an IR camera

    Right Ray, To each his own!
    My guess would be that just like the photos, years from now your post will read.
    4. For years I did not routinely us IR, now I do.
    All I was trying to say is that, It ,In my opinion, is a useful tool and it has helped me.
    I am not trying to sell it to those who I am sure, know so much more than I do.
    One question, full garage, can't see the walls, do you take pictures or just type in blocked from view?
    I'm asking because I take pics and keep them, I don't always add to the report. But is something came up in the future, I would have proof that I could not see.
    Am I being overcautious?


  7. #72
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    Default Re: Mike Holmes said we need an IR camera

    Hi Wayne

    You are doing what you know best and your competition and market will guide you in those decisions.

    I have recently switched report systems and now include pictures after years of not providing them. I do keep all my photos even though a good many don't end up in the report.

    Cheers,


  8. #73
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    Default Re: Mike Holmes said we need an IR camera

    Quote Originally Posted by Kevin Wood View Post
    I have offered to scan each room with IR temperature sensor but no one wants to pay extra.
    Start scanning at no additional cost, it does not take much time. Not only will YOU be surprised what you were missing, but YOUR CLIENTS will see what they would not otherwise have been shown.

    It will not take long before you are getting referrals BECAUSE you use your IR camera. Then, after a little while, you slowly raise your prices.

    You are now in demand and are worth more, and people will pay more, because they will be calling you because their friend/relative said to call you because you have that neat camera which allowed you to see ... you just need to be patient and build it slowly. You need to SHOW them what the camera can do, then they will SELL you using the camera for you.

    Even in tough times, or maybe I should say: Especially in tough times.

    Why do you think auto dealers have demonstrator cars they will let you drive? Because they know that if they can get you into a new car, their chance of making a sale just increased. I've even had dealers let me drive the car home and keep it a day or two. SHOW them what the camera can do, let them WANT IT.

    Jerry Peck, Construction / Litigation Consultant
    Construction Litigation Consultants, LLC ( www.ConstructionLitigationConsultants.com )
    www.AskCodeMan.com

  9. #74
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    Default Re: Mike Holmes said we need an IR camera

    Quote Originally Posted by Jerry Peck View Post
    SHOW them what the camera can do, let them WANT IT.
    They want it alright, but they want it for free. That is the quandary we find ourselves in. To book the initial inspection, we can't include IR in the price. If we find a leak with IR, of course we inform the client and they've just gotten a free IR scan. Can't just slap them with a surtax, can we? Next client wants the low price with the bonus free IR scan. It's a crazy business.

    Miss a wet spot? You had an IR camera in the house and you missed a wet spot?

    John Kogel, RHI, BC HI Lic #47455
    www.allsafehome.ca

  10. #75
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    Default Re: Mike Holmes said we need an IR camera

    Quote Originally Posted by John Kogel View Post
    They want it alright, but they want it for free. That is the quandary we find ourselves in.
    John,

    It's no quandary if you do as I said - give it to them for "free" - SHOW them what you can do with it ... they PAY you by giving referrals where you give it to them for "free" too, and as those referrals add up and pick up, then THAT is where you make it back, and then you HAVE A REASON TO RAISE your prices slowly over your competitors ... your past clients are referring your current clients who are referring your future client, and all of them as saying 'YOU HAVE GOT TO CALL THIS GUY, I know he is a little higher, but DO NOT CALL ANYONE ELSE, you should have seen what he found that camera of his, he found (and all the home inspectors are using the infrared camera can quite adequately fill that list in).

    Yes, you did their inspection and used the infrared for "free", but you get paid back double, and in the long run it gives you a reason to raise your prices over your competition which is not using infrared or is only using it when someone wants to "pay" for it as a separate charge.

    Jerry Peck, Construction / Litigation Consultant
    Construction Litigation Consultants, LLC ( www.ConstructionLitigationConsultants.com )
    www.AskCodeMan.com

  11. #76
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    Default Re: Mike Holmes said we need an IR camera

    Nothing is free, and I have no problem walking around with my cam inside the home. If I detect something, I report it. There is no additional charge for this service. I do the best I can do for my clients at all times. They pay me for this service. Please understand, I do not go after jobs by attempting to be the "cheapest" price in town, and everything is considered.

    There are those that use their cams to perform a dog and pony show. I do not have the need or desire to do so.

    I charge an additional fee for scoping the exterior. The reason being , as I explain to my clients is that when scanning the exterior for moisture intrusion (depending upon the time of the year), I either have to be at the home at about 5-6 am (which obviously is not a normal time to arrive), or remain until about 9-10 pm (which is also beyond the normal inspection time).

    Steven Turetsky, UID #16000002314
    homeinspectionsnewyork.com
    eifsinspectionsnewyork.com

  12. #77
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    Default Re: Mike Holmes said we need an IR camera

    Quote Originally Posted by John Kogel View Post
    They want it alright, but they want it for free. That is the quandary we find ourselves in. To book the initial inspection, we can't include IR in the price. If we find a leak with IR, of course we inform the client and they've just gotten a free IR scan. Can't just slap them with a surtax, can we? Next client wants the low price with the bonus free IR scan. It's a crazy business.

    Miss a wet spot? You had an IR camera in the house and you missed a wet spot?
    Raise your base price and include the thermal. Then when the price shopper calls you have something to tell them when they ask why you're so much higher priced than the next inspector.

    MinnesotaHomeInspectors.com
    Minnesota Home Inspectors LLC
    ASHI #242887 mnradontesting.com

  13. #78
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    Default Re: Mike Holmes said we need an IR camera

    There is no new info here, just rehashing an old subject. The time is not right for higher inspection prices in my area - too many inspectors and too few sales.

    John Kogel, RHI, BC HI Lic #47455
    www.allsafehome.ca

  14. #79
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    Default Re: Mike Holmes said we need an IR camera

    Quote Originally Posted by John Kogel View Post
    There is no new info here, just rehashing an old subject. The time is not right for higher inspection prices in my area - too many inspectors and too few sales.
    Which means that now is the right time to include using your infrared camera.

    John, sounds to me like you are missing what the old info is stating, and that in rehashing it here you are still missing it.

    What did you not understand in my post about using your infrared camera for free NOW and ... reaping the referrals over the NEAR future and then ... being able to raise your prices IN the future?

    Especially in times like this, unless you are so friggin' busy you don't have time for more business ... in which case I could somewhat understand NOT WANTING MORE REFERRALS ... unless you are that busy, the ADDITIONAL REFERRALS are your payback.

    Jerry Peck, Construction / Litigation Consultant
    Construction Litigation Consultants, LLC ( www.ConstructionLitigationConsultants.com )
    www.AskCodeMan.com

  15. #80
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    Default Re: Mike Holmes said we need an IR camera

    Quote Originally Posted by John Kogel View Post
    There is no new info here, just rehashing an old subject. The time is not right for higher inspection prices in my area - too many inspectors and too few sales.
    I've said it before, if you want to increase your number of inspections and increase your inspection fees make yourself stand out from your competition. Thermal is one way to do it.

    We've come a long way from the paper check list report. Thermal is one of the next big steps. If you're not willing to invest in your business, you may as well find another line of work because if you haven't noticed, there are a ton of new inspection companies opening there doors and you can bet their using the latest technology.

    Heck, I've already spoken with the president of a company who does onsite medical x-rays about the potential of using it for home inspections. Gotta stay ahead of the competition.

    MinnesotaHomeInspectors.com
    Minnesota Home Inspectors LLC
    ASHI #242887 mnradontesting.com

  16. #81
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    Default Re: Mike Holmes said we need an IR camera

    All I see and hear is a lot a talk, but no stats. Its all hear say, anecdotal evidence.

    Yup new competition opening their doors and flooding the saturated home inspection market and many if they did invest in an iR are still under cutting established inspectors whether or not they have iR service.

    How is it that many of us senior inspectors have been able to run our businesses without iR all this time and in my case still do not see a market for it. The demand is just not here at least in my area.

    Anyone purchasing a iR camera on hype and then hoping to increase business had better do their research and have a marketing/business plan. I suspect many do not.


  17. #82
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    Default Re: Mike Holmes said we need an IR camera

    I'm going to side with Raymond on this one. I don't mind investing in equipment but and when I do I buy top drawer stuff. But no matter how I work the numbers, an IR camera does not fall into the game plan nor do I see where I can truly benefit from it. The real problem I have with the technology is that it's my belief that they cameras have been over-hyped. That's not to say that if someday an free camera showed up on my door step I wouldn't toss it in the truck next to the borescope I never use.

    Eric Barker, ACI
    Lake Barrington, IL

  18. #83
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    Default Re: Mike Holmes said we need an IR camera

    I keep thinking about IR and then wake up. I'm not spending $3-$10K on a piece of equipment I can't get money back from. The idea that the return comes from increased referrals is nonsense. Clients will refer you because they want to refer you, not because you had an IR. I get so few questions from clients about IR it isn't worth it at this point. It's August now, I've had maybe 2-3 people ask about it this year. When they ask its usually hype based and I've still booked the inspection.
    There are a fair amount of HI's around here throwing in IR for free on normal HI. What a stupid waste. I'm not interested in keeping up with that type of competition. You know who needs IR for standard HI work, guys who don't know buildings.
    I will probably buy one at some point but who knows when. I grew up on jobsites, I know where the leaks are in buildings. All the camera would do is verify what I probably already know.
    Besides, if it's a water intrusion job I just give them MT's number.

    www.aic-chicago.com
    773/844-4AIC
    "The Code is not a ceiling to reach but a floor to work up from"

  19. #84
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    Default Re: Mike Holmes said we need an IR camera

    Quote Originally Posted by Markus Keller View Post
    I keep thinking about IR and then wake up. I'm not spending $3-$10K on a piece of equipment I can't get money back from. The idea that the return comes from increased referrals is nonsense. Clients will refer you because they want to refer you, not because you had an IR.

    Besides, if it's a water intrusion job I just give them MT's number.
    It may be different in some areas of the counrty.
    I found what Jerry stated is very true in AZ . Here it's apx . 80% locating missing insulation, and 20% water leaks. When I got one 7or 8 years ago I started advertizng using the IR camera on new homes. My orders went up 2-3 per week, when I asked why they hired me almost every customer stated it was due to the IR.

    Fast forward to today.. The majorty of those customers, including a couple RE agents, are now my sales people that are now reusing or refering me.

    I had an out of town customer call me due to my postings on this site last week. The 1st thing he asked me when I called him to review my findings , is if I used the camera , and if I found anything with it.

    Phoenix AZ Resale Home, Mobile Home, New Home Warranty Inspections. ASHI Certified Inspector #206929 Arizona Certified Inspector # 38440
    www.inspectaz.com

  20. #85
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    Default Re: Mike Holmes said we need an IR camera

    You know, I had long response typed out replying to Raymond, Eric and Markus giving my personal experience and stats showing how my thermal imaging camera has more than paid for itself and increased my business. Then figured, it's not worth it. If they're happy getting by with just the basics, so be it.

    I am a little offended by the comment:

    You know who needs IR for standard HI work, guys who don't know buildings.
    I guess I didn't realize Markus was born with x-ray vision and could see missing insulation in the walls and exactly where those in floor heating lines are run.

    There are people who get it, and those who don't. They obviously don't.

    MinnesotaHomeInspectors.com
    Minnesota Home Inspectors LLC
    ASHI #242887 mnradontesting.com

  21. #86
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    Default Re: Mike Holmes said we need an IR camera

    Quote Originally Posted by Ken Rowe View Post
    I am a little offended by the comment:
    "You know who needs IR for standard HI work, guys who don't know buildings."
    I guess I didn't realize Markus was born with x-ray vision and could see missing insulation in the walls and exactly where those in floor heating lines are run.
    Most do not consider looking for missing insulation, or locating in floor heating lines as a part of "standard inspection".

    ' correct a wise man and you gain a friend... correct a fool and he'll bloody your nose'.

  22. #87
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    Default Re: Mike Holmes said we need an IR camera

    Quote Originally Posted by Nathan Thornberry View Post
    Obviously, he's had some success so he's doing something right. At the same time, I'm not sure I've ever heard anyone say anything about the show other than a home inspector.
    Booked another one today thanks to Mike Holmes helping to tip the scales in my direction. Hear it every week. "Well...I've been watching that Holmes on HGTV"


  23. #88
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    Default Re: Mike Holmes said we need an IR camera

    Missing insulation - You don't need an IR camera - know your buildings.
    Vintage buildings don't have it; something from the 70's or 80's is either defective, inadequate or not even there; NC will be poorly installed and under R value. Unless the Developer/Builder provides certification it is installed properly everywhere, IT ISN'T. Everyone of those moron contractors is the same. You don't need an IR camera to figure that out.
    Radiant lines - If you are scoping out radiant lines and aren't charging extra for it, sorry to hear it. If a radiant line is leaking in a ceiling, some can see it just fine without a camera.
    You want an IR camera for special services that pay. Sounds good. If you are throwing in the use of a multi-thousand dollar camera for free that's just plain stupid.
    Kind of like the idiots I know (who won't be happy when they read this, still love you guys but you screwed the pouch on that one) who did a ~$2mil, 5000 sqft NC with multiple high end systems and glass walls for $525.
    Know your buildings, know what you are getting into and charge accordingly.

    www.aic-chicago.com
    773/844-4AIC
    "The Code is not a ceiling to reach but a floor to work up from"

  24. #89
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    Default Re: Mike Holmes said we need an IR camera

    Quote Originally Posted by Hank Spinnler View Post
    Booked another one today thanks to Mike Holmes helping to tip the scales in my direction. Hear it every week. "Well...I've been watching that Holmes on HGTV"
    Same here.. This AM a caller asked me for a price, I told her, she then stated OK thanks and was ready to hang up, at that point I stated the inspection included an IR inspection. Next question was when could I do it.
    Another inspection scheduled, $400.00 Sat AM, 1st opening I had, now I'm booked for the week.. Lifes good even if it's 115 degrees today

    Phoenix AZ Resale Home, Mobile Home, New Home Warranty Inspections. ASHI Certified Inspector #206929 Arizona Certified Inspector # 38440
    www.inspectaz.com

  25. #90
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    Default Re: Mike Holmes said we need an IR camera

    Good deal Dan. Were those "dust storms" occurring out in your area?


  26. #91
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    Default Re: Mike Holmes said we need an IR camera

    Quote Originally Posted by Hank Spinnler View Post
    Good deal Dan. Were those "dust storms" occurring out in your area?
    Yea just another day in the desert, and another day the pool got trashed. The news makes them look like some big deal.. It's been a few years since we had so many in one summer, I'll take a few 15 to 20 minute dust storms over several days of blizzerds and 20 below days.

    Phoenix AZ Resale Home, Mobile Home, New Home Warranty Inspections. ASHI Certified Inspector #206929 Arizona Certified Inspector # 38440
    www.inspectaz.com

  27. #92
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    Default Re: Mike Holmes said we need an IR camera

    Quote Originally Posted by Rick Cantrell View Post
    Most do not consider looking for missing insulation, or locating in floor heating lines as a part of "standard inspection".
    As I said, if they're happy doing just the basics, so be it. Me? I want to do the best job I can for my clients and have a full schedule.


    Quote Originally Posted by Kevin Wood View Post
    Curious does your Insurance Company charge you more for IR?
    Other thing when you locate the problems with IR, How do you point out what you should not have seen to the Home Owner or RA?
    When you spoke of X-ray vision it just made me think. WHAT
    No, I have insurance through Minnesota Joint Underwriters Association. No extra charge for radon, thermal, or anything else I do as a home inspector. I document the issues in my report to my clients, the buyers. I generally don't deal with the home owners or agents. If I did, I'd just tell them what I saw.

    Quote Originally Posted by Markus Keller View Post
    Missing insulation - You don't need an IR camera - know your buildings.
    Vintage buildings don't have it; something from the 70's or 80's is either defective, inadequate or not even there; NC will be poorly installed and under R value. Unless the Developer/Builder provides certification it is installed properly everywhere, IT ISN'T. Everyone of those moron contractors is the same. You don't need an IR camera to figure that out.

    Know your buildings, know what you are getting into and charge accordingly.
    Really? Vintage buildings don't have insulation? My house was built in 1948 and I have 18 inches of cellulose in the attic and 3 1/2 in the walls. I know, I put it there. I see you didn't mention new construction or repair work where they forgot to put insulation in the walls, which you would never find just because you "know your buildings".

    Quote Originally Posted by Markus Keller View Post
    Radiant lines - If you are scoping out radiant lines and aren't charging extra for it, sorry to hear it. If a radiant line is leaking in a ceiling, some can see it just fine without a camera.
    You want an IR camera for special services that pay. Sounds good. If you are throwing in the use of a multi-thousand dollar camera for free that's just plain stupid.
    Stupid? Really, I raised my inspection fee across the board when I started including thermal. My number of inspections have increase over 20% since including thermal and raising my rates. As I said, some people just don't get it.

    MinnesotaHomeInspectors.com
    Minnesota Home Inspectors LLC
    ASHI #242887 mnradontesting.com

  28. #93
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    Default Re: Mike Holmes said we need an IR camera

    Quote Originally Posted by Markus Keller View Post
    You know who needs IR for standard HI work, guys who don't know buildings.)
    Markus,

    Guess I don't know nuttin' about dem der things ya'll call buildin's ...

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    Default Re: Mike Holmes said we need an IR camera

    Quote Originally Posted by Jerry Peck View Post
    Markus,

    Guess I don't know nuttin' about dem der things ya'll call buildin's ...
    Jerry
    I wouldn't think you ( or Ken) would NEED an IR camera for what MOST people consider a STANDARD INSPECTION.

    ' correct a wise man and you gain a friend... correct a fool and he'll bloody your nose'.

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    Default Re: Mike Holmes said we need an IR camera

    Quote Originally Posted by Rick Cantrell View Post
    Jerry
    I wouldn't think you ( or Ken) would NEED an IR camera for what MOST people consider a STANDARD INSPECTION.
    I don't need one to do a standard inspection, but, like codes, STANDARDS are the minimum requirements. I go above and beyond the minimum requirements and get paid more to do it. Funny how some inspectors want to see work done above minimum requirements, but only perform the minimum requirements for an inspection.

    Thermal isn't the do all, be all but it is widely recognized by the general public (thanks to Holmes) and it is something that has increased my income. If other inspectors don't believe me or don't want to take advantage of Mike Holmes telling his viewers (potential clients) to hire an inspector with a thermal camera I guess that's their choice. In the mean time I'll take those paying customers.

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    Default Re: Mike Holmes said we need an IR camera

    Quote Originally Posted by Ken Rowe View Post
    I don't need one to do a standard inspection, but, like codes, STANDARDS are the minimum requirements. I go above and beyond the minimum requirements and get paid more to do it.
    Good, you should charge more.

    When it comes to testing garage door openers I trust you also go above minimum standards and test using a 2x4.
    How about flood testing a shower pan.

    ' correct a wise man and you gain a friend... correct a fool and he'll bloody your nose'.

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    Default Re: Mike Holmes said we need an IR camera

    Quote Originally Posted by Rick Cantrell View Post
    Good, you should charge more.

    When it comes to testing garage door openers I trust you also go above minimum standards and test using a 2x4.
    How about flood testing a shower pan.
    I'm pretty sure my inspection methods aren't the subject here. If an inspector chooses not to use a thermal camera, that's their choice. But, don't say they're a waste of money or the inspectors using them don't know houses because there are several of us on here who know better.

    My question is, who knows better, an inspector who's never owned, operated, or marketed a thermal camera in their inspection business, or the inspector who has? If you've never done it, you have no real idea.

    Similar to going from paper check list reports to a computer generated report. They're both tools. The computer report is a tool to make the inspection report easier to read and gives you the ability to add pictures. The thermal camera gives you the tool to take a picture of missing insulation or hidden leaks, in order to pass this information on to the clients. Can you find missing insulation or hidden leaks without a thermal camera? Maybe. Good luck taking a picture of it and showing it to your clients.

    Anyhow, I'm done with this thread. You can lead a horse to water but you can't make him drink.

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    Default Re: Mike Holmes said we need an IR camera

    Quote Originally Posted by Ken Rowe View Post
    If an inspector chooses not to use a thermal camera, that's their choice. But, don't say they're a waste of money or the inspectors using them don't know houses because there are several of us on here who know better.
    I never said, thought or implied anything like that


    Quote Originally Posted by Ken Rowe View Post
    As I said, if they're happy doing just the basics, so be it. Me? I want to do the best job I can for my clients and have a full schedule.
    So anyone not using IR is "doing just the basics", and you do "the best job I can". But even your "best job" does not include testing the shower pan or garage door reversal.

    You do have an XRF machine to test for lead paint, don't you?
    They cost a little more than the IR, but whats money when you only "do the best job" you can for your customers.

    All I'm pointing out is that you label people as minimalist and as someone that performs only a basic inspection if they do not use IR. While at the same time you do not offer your customers testing a garage door or shower pan.

    So before you tell someone they do basic inspections, you might consider some of the things that would provide a better inspection for your customers.

    Last edited by Rick Cantrell; 08-14-2012 at 02:40 PM.
    ' correct a wise man and you gain a friend... correct a fool and he'll bloody your nose'.

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    Default Re: Mike Holmes said we need an IR camera

    Quote Originally Posted by Ken Rowe View Post
    You know, I had long response typed out replying to Raymond, Eric and Markus giving my personal experience and stats showing how my thermal imaging camera has more than paid for itself and increased my business. Then figured, it's not worth it.
    Hi Ken, I hope I didn't pull your chain - didn't intend on that. Markus and I work in the same region and our experiences are the same. Perhaps if we were in another part of the country we'd find things to be quite different. It's somewhat like inspecting an occupied home without a client or agent - it's just not accepted here like it is in some other areas. It's why it can be so interesting to chat with inspectors across the country.

    Eric Barker, ACI
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    Default Re: Mike Holmes said we need an IR camera

    Quote Originally Posted by Rick Cantrell View Post

    So anyone not using IR is "doing just the basics", and you do "the best job I can". But even your "best job" does not include testing the shower pan or garage door reversal.

    You do have an XRF machine to test for lead paint, don't you?
    They cost a little more than the IR, but whats money when you only "do the best job" you can for your customers.
    Why are you even bringing these up? They have nothing to do with thermal imaging. Yes, I actually have a piece of 2x4 to test garage door openers. No I do not flood shower pans. That test is designed to be done during installation, not after the tile is in place and may cause damage to the home. XRF machines are useless to me. I'm not a licensed lead tester (Minnesota requires licensing). Would you like to know what color underwear I'm wearing?

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    Default Re: Mike Holmes said we need an IR camera

    Quote Originally Posted by Ken Rowe View Post
    Why are you even bringing these up?


    I'm pointing out that you label people as minimalist and as someone that performs only a basic inspection if they do not use IR.
    While at the same time you do not offer your customers testing a garage door or shower pan.
    So before you tell someone they do basic inspections, you might consider some of the things that would provide a better inspection for your customers.

    ' correct a wise man and you gain a friend... correct a fool and he'll bloody your nose'.

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    Default Re: Mike Holmes said we need an IR camera

    Quote Originally Posted by Rick Cantrell View Post
    Jerry
    I wouldn't think you ( or Ken) would NEED an IR camera for what MOST people consider a STANDARD INSPECTION.
    Quote Originally Posted by Rick Cantrell View Post
    I'm pointing out that you label people as minimalist and as someone that performs only a basic inspection if they do not use IR.
    STANDARD INSPECTION would be an inspection to basic State or Association STANDARDS, correct? If you notice, I didn't bring up STANDARD inspections, you did. If you feel you're a minimalist, there is nothing I can do about that. Note, I'm not the one who brought up the term MINIMALIST either.

    What I am saying is that Thermal Imaging is being promoted on television by Holmes. I could care less if he's qualified to use it, or a licensed inspector. I purchased a thermal camera and it has increased my business and income. You, and others are stating that it does nothing to increase business nor does it assist in performing home inspections. Yet, you've had no experience with using thermal in an inspection business. Therefore, really have no idea what you're talking about.

    There are several people posting in this thread how thermal has increased their business. There are several others, who have never used thermal in inspections, who are against it. However, I haven't seen any post by any inspector saying they've used thermal imaging on an inspection and lost money.

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    Default Re: Mike Holmes said we need an IR camera

    Quote Originally Posted by Ken Rowe View Post
    If you notice, I didn't bring up STANDARD inspections, you did.
    Actually I didn't bring it up, although I did repeat it, but even that was a quote from another post.


    Quote Originally Posted by Ken Rowe View Post
    You, and others are stating that it does nothing to increase business nor does it assist in performing home inspections.
    You need to read what is written, I never said anything like that.

    Quote Originally Posted by Ken Rowe View Post
    Yet, you've had no experience with using thermal in an inspection business. Therefore, really have no idea what you're talking about.
    Again, I have not said anything about this

    All these things you keep saying I said, I haven't said.
    Read what I've said, not what you think I said.

    ' correct a wise man and you gain a friend... correct a fool and he'll bloody your nose'.

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    Default Re: Mike Holmes said we need an IR camera

    Quote Originally Posted by Rick Cantrell View Post
    You need to read what is written, I never said anything like that.



    Again, I have not said anything about this

    All these things you keep saying I said, I haven't said.
    Read what I've said, not what you think I said.
    Then what is the point of your argument. This thread is a discussion about thermal cameras and their use in home inspections...not the standards of home inspections. Everyone on here already knows thermal imaging is beyond the scope of the standard home inspection.

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    Default Re: Mike Holmes said we need an IR camera

    Quote Originally Posted by Ken Rowe View Post
    Everyone on here already knows thermal imaging is beyond the scope of the standard home inspection.
    Not necessarily. Depends on how one defines what a "STANDARD INSPECTION" is.

    Quote Originally Posted by Rick Cantrell View Post
    Jerry
    I wouldn't think you ( or Ken) would NEED an IR camera for what MOST people consider a STANDARD INSPECTION.
    Rick,

    Our ... at least my ... "STANDARD INSPECTION" *included* the use of my infrared camera.

    Thus, no, I could not do *my* standard inspection without using my infrared camera.

    And, no, I rarely used it for moisture (I've said this many times before too).

    I would, and did, find evidence of moisture with my infrared camera, but that was an incidental use of it. My application of it was for structural, insulation, and other items. Finding moisture was simply a side benefit. Such as the time I scanned through a master bedroom, then did other rooms, then could not recall if I had scanned the master bedroom so I scanned it again, and, lo and behold, there was moisture all around the corner of a window, then it hit me - it had just rained, quite a heavy rain, although also quite brief, and there it was ... that window had leaked, and leaked BIG TIME in that brief rain.

    Many areas one would first presume was moisture on the infrared were actually that way from cool air leaking in or out where it should not have been. One must be careful how they use an infrared camera - they are quite easy to mis-use and mis-diagnose what is being shown.

    However, back to the point of this post (then you two can continue your debate ): (what was the point ... ??? ... ... Oh, yeah ... ) "Depends on how one defines what a "STANDARD INSPECTION" is."

    Jerry Peck, Construction / Litigation Consultant
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    Default Re: Mike Holmes said we need an IR camera

    Jerry, I gave a ad lib definition of STANDARD inspection on post #112 so as to avoid confusion.

    STANDARD INSPECTION would be an inspection to basic State or Association STANDARDS


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    Default Re: Mike Holmes said we need an IR camera

    Quote Originally Posted by Ken Rowe View Post
    As I said, if they're happy doing just the basics, so be it. Me? I want to do the best job I can for my clients and have a full schedule.
    Quote Originally Posted by Rick Cantrell View Post
    I'm pointing out that you label people as minimalist and as someone that performs only a basic inspection if they do not use IR.
    You're pointing out how I labelled people as minimalist if they don't use IR? This is the only post where I've used the word minimalist. Seems you've done the labeling here.

    As I said, if they're happy doing just the basics (standard inspection) that's fine. I use thermal and it brings me clients...by the way, I also do CO testing inside the furnace flue, run appliances, bore scope ducts, check the temp difference of A/C systems, computer generated reports with digital pictures with the report completed onsite and quite a few other things that are beyond the scope of STANDARD inspections...all for my standard fee (which is higher than most in my area).

    Again, to get my point across...if you or anyone else is happy doing basic inspections (ones that meet the minimum State or association requirements) that's fine. But, because I go beyond those requirements I have a pretty full schedule and get paid more than other local inspectors to do them. Thermal is only one thing that will set you apart from other inspectors.

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    Default Re: Mike Holmes said we need an IR camera

    Quote Originally Posted by Ken Rowe View Post
    There are several people posting in this thread how thermal has increased their business. There are several others, who have never used thermal in inspections, who are against it. However, I haven't seen any post by any inspector saying they've used thermal imaging on an inspection and lost money.
    This is close to the pertinent question on the need for/use of an IR camera: Does anyone who has one regret getting it?

    For me, it was a major capital investment that I was able to purchase outright, so it is paid for. Have I made my money back on it? No, not yet.
    Do I regret spending the money on it? Absolutely not!
    Do I NEED one to do a home inspection? No.
    Do I do a better home inspection with one? Absolutely!
    Has it helped land inspections? Yes.

    Mark Fisher
    Allegany Inspection Service - Cumberland MD 21502 - 301-722-2224
    Home Inspections, Mold Testing, Thermal Imaging

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    Default Re: Mike Holmes said we need an IR camera

    Quote Originally Posted by Ken Rowe View Post
    Jerry, I gave a ad lib definition of STANDARD inspection on post #112 so as to avoid confusion.
    I saw that, but that would not have been representative of my standard inspection.

    I doubt that it would really be representative of most home inspectors standard inspection. Newbies, possibly yes, but then they learn and grow above the minimum standard ... in fact that - "minimum" - would be representative of an SoP standard inspection ... it would be better described as a "minimum inspection" than as a 'standard inspection', also more truthful as the SoP states that it is a minimum level.

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    Default Re: Mike Holmes said we need an IR camera

    Quote Originally Posted by Jerry Peck View Post
    I saw that, but that would not have been representative of my standard inspection.

    I doubt that it would really be representative of most home inspectors standard inspection. Newbies, possibly yes, but then they learn and grow above the minimum standard ... in fact that - "minimum" - would be representative of an SoP standard inspection ... it would be better described as a "minimum inspection" than as a 'standard inspection', also more truthful as the SoP states that it is a minimum level.
    I was going with the literal meaning. SOP Standards of Practice = Standard Inspection. When you throw the words STANDARD INSPECTION out to a group of home inspectors it should be obvious that we're not talking about an individual's standards since nobody else has a clue what that individual's standards are.

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    Default Re: Mike Holmes said we need an IR camera

    Quote Originally Posted by Ken Rowe View Post
    ... since nobody else has a clue what that individual's standards are.
    Do some even know what SoPs are that you are mentioning?

    I know that some do, but I withhold opinion on some others awaiting verification of that.

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    Default Re: Mike Holmes said we need an IR camera

    It wasn't that many years ago there was the same negativity regarding the use of a digital camera. Just purchased an Ideal camera thru Tool Experts, great price with many features, consider it another way to provide a better inspection, same as attending inspection seminars.


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    Default Re: Mike Holmes said we need an IR camera

    Quote Originally Posted by Dan Harris View Post
    Same here.. This AM a caller asked me for a price, I told her, she then stated OK thanks and was ready to hang up, at that point I stated the inspection included an IR inspection. Next question was when could I do it.
    Another inspection scheduled, $400.00 Sat AM, 1st opening I had, now I'm booked for the week.. Lifes good even if it's 115 degrees today
    I'm not saying this to be a smart-aleck, but if you're doing an inspection for $400 and throwing in IR......

    That's roughly what I charge on a small home without IR. So it would take me 160 inspections to buy the $4000 Flir E40 they're selling at Professional Equipment.

    I say this b/c if I were to buy one, it would have to pay for itself by being an extra service. I would reserve the right to use it if I wanted to, but for those who requested it or if I upsold, it would have to come at a price.

    I think I've only had one person ever ask me if I did thermal imaging.

    Bruce Thompson, Lic. #9199
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    Default Re: Mike Holmes said we need an IR camera

    Quote Originally Posted by JB Thompson View Post
    I think I've only had one person ever ask me if I did thermal imaging.
    You could change that in a heartbeat if you actually had an infrared camera and pulled it one day on one inspection 'just to try it'.

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    Default Re: Mike Holmes said we need an IR camera

    Quote Originally Posted by JB Thompson View Post
    I'm not saying this to be a smart-aleck, but if you're doing an inspection for $400 and throwing in IR......

    That's roughly what I charge on a small home without IR. So it would take me 160 inspections to buy the $4000 Flir E40 they're selling at Professional Equipment.

    I say this b/c if I were to buy one, it would have to pay for itself by being an extra service. I would reserve the right to use it if I wanted to, but for those who requested it or if I upsold, it would have to come at a price.

    I think I've only had one person ever ask me if I did thermal imaging.
    I'm not sure how your figuring your math to come up with needing 160 inspections?

    The way I look at is, if I make a $4000 or any X amount of investment in my business , how long will it take to see a return.
    If I can get 3-4 additional inspections a month from my investment that's apx $1000 a month additional gross income. With a $4000 investment I get my money/ investment back in apx 4 months. There are few other investments that I can make [ with maybe the exception of kissing up to realtors ] that I can see an honest return,
    I bought my 1st camera 7or 8 years ago, to date I've spent apx $200 on it.

    As far as buying a new one, in todays market I see a lot of slightly used cameras being offerered for 1/2 price.

    Like Jerry mentioned bring one out at an inspection and the word will spread.

    Or my experience, if I'm trying to close a phone price shopper,
    I'm not one to tell someone how much greater I am than the other guy, or bad mouth the other guy to get a sale. I let them know I have one, and tell them what I can find with an IR [ assuming they call when you have the right conditions for the camera to be effective]

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    Default Re: Mike Holmes said we need an IR camera

    Quote Originally Posted by Dan Harris View Post
    I'm not sure how your figuring your math to come up with needing 160 inspections?

    The way I look at is, if I make a $4000 or any X amount of investment in my business , how long will it take to see a return.
    If I can get 3-4 additional inspections a month from my investment that's apx $1000 a month additional gross income. With a $4000 investment I get my money/ investment back in apx 4 months. There are few other investments that I can make [ with maybe the exception of kissing up to realtors ] that I can see an honest return,
    I bought my 1st camera 7or 8 years ago, to date I've spent apx $200 on it.

    As far as buying a new one, in todays market I see a lot of slightly used cameras being offerered for 1/2 price.

    Like Jerry mentioned bring one out at an inspection and the word will spread.

    Or my experience, if I'm trying to close a phone price shopper,
    I'm not one to tell someone how much greater I am than the other guy, or bad mouth the other guy to get a sale. I let them know I have one, and tell them what I can find with an IR [ assuming they call when you have the right conditions for the camera to be effective]
    If I charge $375 for the same home inspection that you charge $400 for and I don't use IR and you do, then there is a $25 difference assuming all other things were equal (difficult to do, but...)

    Obviously that is the most basic inspection b/c other larger inspections may increase the price of the service with and without the unit, but I'm figuring it would take me 160 inspections to break even based on your number.

    For my way of thinking, closing the sale with an IR device or not, is less tangible, b/c I don't have one - people don't ask me for one and I stay busy. Could I do more? Sure. Would the camera help that? Maybe, but hard to say. I could justify it as a tool "for me" to use on the inspection just as I do a screwdriver and write off the expense....Or I could upsell the service and advertise that I perform IR inspections and charge accordingly.

    Maybe it's my old way of thinking or my market, but for me it's too great of an expense for what I perceive to be a return.

    Would I like to have one and would I use? Sure. I'd like a Lamborghini too.

    Bruce Thompson, Lic. #9199
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    Default Re: Mike Holmes said we need an IR camera

    Quote Originally Posted by JB Thompson View Post

    Obviously that is the most basic inspection b/c other larger inspections may increase the price of the service with and without the unit, but I'm figuring it would take me 160 inspections to break even based on your number.
    I don't know what kind of inspection numbers you do, but 160 would be about 6 months for me. So the investment takes 6 months to pay off, everything after that is additional income.

    If you used the short end of Dan's years of service for his IR (7 years) and multiply that by the number of inspections I do (320 per year) then multiply that figure by $25 that comes to $52,000 of additional income. (remember to subtract the first 6 months until it's paid for). Wait, I forgot to subtract the $200 in expenses Dan posted. So $51,800 in additional income.

    That's a heck of a down payment on a Lamborghini.

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    Default Re: Mike Holmes said we need an IR camera

    I don't currently own an IR camera but obtaining one this year with at least lvl 1 training is on my list. I disagree with Mike about tossing the inspector if he doesn't have one especially if this were taken to mean a $20k minimum camera. I want to use thermal in all of my inspections for my use to possibly make more income and to simply provide my customer with the best inspection that I can offer. Also, I will take EIFS training this year and the camera could help quit a bit. Realistically I don't expect to be able to "see" mold but rather to aid me in making more sound judgement calls on issues that I notice. I like Mike's show and at least they did not introduce Mike as a home inspector.


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    Default Re: Mike Holmes said we need an IR camera

    Quote Originally Posted by Kevin Wood View Post
    Mr. Holmes just did an inspection here in SSM On. The seller is furious as he already went down $60,000 to sell his home and the Inspector found even more things with IR. Thing is who gets the most benefit for this as the Clients walked away from the home and Mike Holmes Group pockets about $400.00, Real Estate Agent does not get the sale and the Home Owner can't sell his home.
    There is such a thing as having too much detail because no house would be sold.
    HUHHH.. Who do you work for when you do an inspection?

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    Default Re: Mike Holmes said we need an IR camera

    Quote Originally Posted by Kevin Wood View Post
    I do not agree with Holmes Group and I do not agree with using IR not because I don't think it is good tool but because using it as a means to show leakage, structure or electrical problems and not explaining how easy some things are to repair many can get the wrong idea.
    .
    Considering your one of them super certified master inspectors I would think you are aware that existing leakage, structural or electrical problems are sure to show up sooner or later.
    Why not disclose it to the buyer and let them decide if they want to accept the existing things while they own the home, and or when it's disclosed by Holmes or another inspector when they sell?

    I'm starting to think Ca. really needs some type of licensing to protect the clinet from inspectors that are worried about someone other than their clinets

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    Default Re: Mike Holmes said we need an IR camera

    Quote Originally Posted by Kevin Wood View Post
    Mr. Holmes Group just did an inspection here in SSM On. The seller is furious as he already went down $60,000 to sell his home and the Inspector found even more things with IR.
    It shouldn't make any difference to the inspector how much the seller went down in price or even what the selling price is. It's none of our business. Good for the inspector and client that more things were discovered.


    Quote Originally Posted by Kevin Wood View Post
    Thing is who gets the most benefit for this as the Clients walked away from the home and Mike Holmes Group pockets about $400.00, Real Estate Agent does not get the sale and the Home Owner can't sell his home.
    Ummm...the clients who hired the inspector got the most benefits. They didn't get stuck with a house with hidden defects. So the inspection company charged $400 for the inspection. Do you really think the hidden defect would cost less than that to fix? Hidden means you have to tear things apart to fix them. That's cheap. It's putting it back together that gets expensive.


    Quote Originally Posted by Kevin Wood View Post
    There is such a thing as having too much detail because no house would be sold.
    There is no such thing as "too much detail" when it comes to a home inspection.

    No offense, but it really sounds like you wanted the clients to buy the house with the hidden defects so the seller and agent got paid.

    MinnesotaHomeInspectors.com
    Minnesota Home Inspectors LLC
    ASHI #242887 mnradontesting.com

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    Default Re: Mike Holmes said we need an IR camera

    I can't believe someone would actually state that they don't use a icam because they may see something they might have otherwise missed.

    Last edited by Steven Turetsky; 11-11-2012 at 07:42 AM.
    Steven Turetsky, UID #16000002314
    homeinspectionsnewyork.com
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  58. #123
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    Default Re: Mike Holmes said we need an IR camera

    Quote Originally Posted by Kevin Wood View Post
    Steven with all due respect as I said there would be no house to sell if I did a Holmes Inspection. At $1000.00 no one would call a independent inspector either. I wish that it was the norm but you are not here to see what happens in the Sault or what mess Mr. Holmes has helped to create.
    Even with the best equipment and three days you still can't give someone a house with no problems. Like I said to others I can go way passed a number of Inspectors here if my Client wants me to. We generally only get at the most half a day for a house and even at 3 hours the Real Estate Agent is asking how much longer.
    Interesting.. .. So these three quotes from your website only apply if the client pays you enough

    "My first priority is you!"

    " Your home is probably the greatest purchase you will ever make. As an InterNACHI- Certified Master Inspector let me protect your investment and protect your family by working for you. I’m proud to bring my years of experience and expertise to each inspection I perform, and I will do my best to provide you with the service you deserve.'

    "One thing for sure is that a home inspection requires work, a lot of work. Ultimately a thorough inspection depends heavily on the individual inspector’s own effort. If you honor me by permitting me to inspect your new home, I guarantee that I will give you my very best effort. This I promise you.

    Last edited by Dan Harris; 11-11-2012 at 02:50 PM.
    Phoenix AZ Resale Home, Mobile Home, New Home Warranty Inspections. ASHI Certified Inspector #206929 Arizona Certified Inspector # 38440
    www.inspectaz.com

  59. #124
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    Default Re: Mike Holmes said we need an IR camera

    It would be interesting to find out how many clients who retain the Holmes Inspection request an iR scan?

    Recently on Mikes Live Chat I asked Mike what associations he belonged to and what certifications he had to use the iR camera he likes to flaunt.

    No reply. Hmmm.. so much for doing it right!

    Mike Holmes Inspections | Pre-Purchase Inspection


  60. #125
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    Default Re: Mike Holmes said we need an IR camera

    What is the difference between a Mike Holmes Inspection and any other inspection? Other than the IR, what does a Mike Holmes inspection include that others' (yours) do not?

    I have never seen one of his or your reports. Have you?

    If the only diff is the IR... then perhaps he is correct and you need one. He is raising the bar... are you out?

    Do you think that every Mike Holmes inspection includes opening walls (etc) as depicted in his show? Remember, his show is scripted and they are going to make sure it is very dramatic. They are not going to air a show about a boring inspection.

    As far as his requirements to work for him; good for him. You seem to complain that he forces you to meet ASHI Standards. That is a "glass half full" attitude. Why don't you turn it around and strive to surpass ASHI Standards.

    Last edited by Steven Turetsky; 11-11-2012 at 04:35 PM.
    Steven Turetsky, UID #16000002314
    homeinspectionsnewyork.com
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  61. #126
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    Default Re: Mike Holmes said we need an IR camera

    Quote Originally Posted by Kevin Wood View Post
    and even at 3 hours the Real Estate Agent is asking how much longer.
    If a realtor does not ask me how much longer, I have not done my job. And we all should have a IR camera attend classes to use the camera and be able to comunicate to our client what it is telling us.

    We should takes as much time as needed to inspect a home for a client. If not you are doing a diservice to your client (regardless of price charged) .. What you find in a home may or may not be important to your client but your client needs to know all your finding so they can make a good decision.

    BTW this is a*public forum and I hope none of your potential clients will see your posts.

    Mitchell Captain
    Allspec Professional Property Inspections


  62. #127
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    Default Re: Mike Holmes said we need an IR camera

    I would also edit (proof read) anything that had my brand on it. But are they editing it (changing content) or proof reading it (correcting splelling, grammar, missed items, etc.?).

    Steven Turetsky, UID #16000002314
    homeinspectionsnewyork.com
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  63. #128
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    Default Re: Mike Holmes said we need an IR camera

    Quote Originally Posted by Kevin Wood View Post
    For the last time guys it is a h e ll of allot different than any area in America. If I was in America I would do what the Americans do. You would not get through one week here doing the IR thing in SSM On. I have even asked my Clients what type of Inspection they want and it is always the minimum standards so don't go getting all bent out of shape about how I do Inspections. Like I said the Clients are my main concern but you can't force them to pull more money out of there pockets not here anyways. Many can't even afford a Home and when they find out the work needed they walk.
    I also have taken all the training for IR and am just waiting for it to become the norm.
    Out of curiosity, how much do you charge for an average 2,000 sq ft home? Why wait for IR to "become the norm" Why not do it now, and try to establish yourself to be as good, if not better than your competition. Instead of the other way around.

    Steven Turetsky, UID #16000002314
    homeinspectionsnewyork.com
    eifsinspectionsnewyork.com

  64. #129
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    Default Re: Mike Holmes said we need an IR camera

    Quote Originally Posted by Kevin Wood View Post
    For the last time guys it is a h e ll of allot different than any area in America. If I was in America I would do what the Americans do. You would not get through one week here doing the IR thing in SSM On. I have even asked my Clients what type of Inspection they want and it is always the minimum standards so don't go getting all bent out of shape about how I do Inspections. Like I said the Clients are my main concern but you can't force them to pull more money out of there pockets not here anyways. Many can't even afford a Home and when they find out the work needed they walk.
    I also have taken all the training for IR and am just waiting for it to become the norm.
    I recall hearing the same arguments against IR in the states a few years ago.
    Considering your complaining about what M Holmes is doing, from here in America it appears to look like you may need to start doing what he's doing or your time is numbered in this profession.

    Considering you claim to be superior to other inspectors as a nicki master certified inspector and you claim Holmes can get $1000.00 per inspection why can't you?

    Phoenix AZ Resale Home, Mobile Home, New Home Warranty Inspections. ASHI Certified Inspector #206929 Arizona Certified Inspector # 38440
    www.inspectaz.com

  65. #130
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    Default Re: Mike Holmes said we need an IR camera

    I have been in business since 1991, I have yet to see the great demand in my area for iR.

    The market is spotty for such services.

    Almost everyday I am reading that someone has their iR for sale, for a myriad of reasons.

    People are very cost conscience. What makes some of you think that a client who is already cash strap wants to spend an extra $100 for an iR scan.
    Heck I get people calling me telling me they can get an inspection for $20-30 cheaper from my competitor who is also not offering iR service.

    As for Mike Holmes, he is subcontracting out inspections and taking half the fee, I suspect many purchasers think Mike actually comes out and does the inspection.

    And as far as I am concerned my inspections are just as good or better than Holmes and I charge more than my competitors. So in reality I am better off being independent.


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