Thread: Cost of an IR camera

If a home inspector wanted to invest in an IR camera with an SD card and has a $3000 to $4000 budget what are some good options?

What brands?

Which ones should you avoid?

This camera would be used to help the inspector in their normal inspection routine and to also help contend with competition that has started to use IR cameras as a selling point for their inspections.

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I bought a FLIR b40 about 3 years ago for around $4500. I use it a lot and like it, but wish I had gone up a model or 2 so I could get larger images out of it. Although it is tons better than the one I had been using before, it is a pretty basic model.

FLUKE had a similar model with similar features. I remember doing a side-by-side comparison of the 2 brands and it was pretty close. Can't think of a 3rd brand I would consider.

It would scare me to death to buy something that expensive used, but I'd consider it if it was half the price, or I could get a much better model for the price I spent on mine.

Scott, I use the flir I7 $2000, and have found it to be a great unit.
Sits in my tool belt pocket and does everyting I need.
I don't use the pics in the report. I use it only as a diagnostic tool for normal inspection.
Makes my life easy and has found a ton of leaks and missing insualtion, among other things I never would have found without it.
When brokers ask what it is I tell them " a sleep aid"

You may want to look into a Fluke Ti 110. I am not so familiar with that particular model (I use a TiR32), but it is in the range you mention.

If you go to the fluke site, you can compare the models.

In the past I have dealt with Tom Black 410-472-2416, I found him to be an honest man and he usually discounts his prices very nicely.

If you want something used, check out SPI (SPI Infrared: Thermal Imagers, Binoculars, Cameras & Flir Experts | SPI Infrared, they have some interesting deals, but unless you are very familiar with cams, I would avoid a used one. If something goes wrong with the cam, whatever you have saved can be out the window.

Originally Posted by wayne soper

Scott, I use the flir I7 $2000, and have found it to be a great unit.
Sits in my tool belt pocket and does everyting I need.
I don't use the pics in the report. I use it only as a diagnostic tool for normal inspection.
Makes my life easy and has found a ton of leaks and missing insualtion, among other things I never would have found without it.
When brokers ask what it is I tell them " a sleep aid"

I use IR pics very carefully in HI reports (need to be very clear-cut and 'eye-popping' so even a Realtor can understand), but extensively in energy work and moisture surveys. I mostly use it (in HI's) for finding moisture/leaks that would not be visible otherwise. Saved my a$$ at least once (sleep aid - I like that).

I can relate to you feeling pressed because of competitors' using it. I'm in the opposite position - small market and the Realtors' chums get the lion's share - so it is definitely a marketing tool, as well as a technical tool, for me. But more importantly it has helped me expand the services that I offer, which is the only way that I have survived these last couple of years.

FLIR B-Cam does everything I need it to do.

Originally Posted by Mark Fisher

I bought a FLIR b40 about 3 years ago for around $4500. I use it a lot and like it, but wish I had gone up a model or 2 so I could get larger images out of it.

I've heard quite a few inspectors say this about their cameras. I've also heard several say that your should buy the best you can afford. The one I've looked at is the Fluke TiR32 but I can't justify the price for how much I'd use it.

Originally Posted by Eric Barker

I've heard quite a few inspectors say this about their cameras. I've also heard several say that your should buy the best you can afford. The one I've looked at is the Fluke TiR32 but I can't justify the price for how much I'd use it.

Eric,

I have a Tir32. I selected this model for a few reasons.

I wanted a Fluke.

Because the type of inspections I find myself doing, I wanted to be able to scan larger areas, and because I often find the buildings I inspect closer together, I wanted a cam that would accept a wide angle lens. Because I also find myself inspecting tall buildings I also wanted a telescopic lens.

This basically left me with either a TiR4 or the TiR32.

The main reason I went with the Tir32 is because when spending a day with both cams, the TiR4 was just too big (and required two hands). When holding it, I felt like I was holding a dinosaur (really). The TiR32 felt very comfortable.

Other things that I considered was the price, the TiR32 is half the price AND there is a big difference in the price of the lenses. The TiR32 lenses are about $1,000 each and can easily be purchased at any time without having to factory re-calibrate the camera (is built in). The TiR4 lenses are about $2,500 each if you purchase them when purchasing the cam. If you purchase them at a later time, they are about twice the price (with factory calibration).

What distinguishes cameras is the resolution, the resolution in the TiR4 and TiR32 is the same.

I ended up purchasing the TiR32 and both lenses... and spent less than half of what I would have spent on the TiR4 by itself.

OK, it is still alot of money in relationship to the less expensive cams. I justified it 2 ways.

1. I felt this is a long term purchase, and long after the pleasure of spending less had passed, I would have been aggravated that I did not have the camera I wanted/needed.

2. Had I purchased a lesser camera and then upgraded it would have cost me more.

Sometimes I use the camera quite a bit, and sometimes it sits for a while. I can say that I have gotten (get) jobs that I would not have if I didn't have the camera.

Coming over to the dark side?

Originally Posted by Scott Patterson

If a home inspector wanted to invest in an IR camera with an SD card and has a $3000 to $4000 budget what are some good options?

What brands?

Which ones should you avoid?

This camera would be used to help the inspector in their normal inspection routine and to also help contend with competition that has started to use IR cameras as a selling point for their inspections.

Originally Posted by Marc M

Coming over to the dark side?

Kicking and screaming!

I was asked to bid on on a apartment rehab job(draws, cost analysis and QA till finished) and one of the requirements is that I have an IR camera. I won the bid! The good news outside of winning the bid is that I do not need it till February/March of next year.

You will not be happy with the low-end models. Without clear definition, the info will be too nebulous to be much good.

It will satisfy the requirement at a lower price. But so would a used camera of a higher grade.

Originally Posted by Scott Patterson

Kicking and screaming!

I was asked to bid on on a apartment rehab job(draws, cost analysis and QA till finished) and one of the requirements is that I have an IR camera. I won the bid! The good news outside of winning the bid is that I do not need it till February/March of next year.

Hey Scott, I wasnt sure if you knew but you can rent them if you don't want to commit to a purchase. FLIR Infrared Camera Fluke Thermal Imager Test & Measurement Equipment

Originally Posted by Marc M

Hey Scott, I wasnt sure if you knew but you can rent them if you don't want to commit to a purchase. FLIR Infrared Camera Fluke Thermal Imager Test & Measurement Equipment

Thanks, I just end up buying one. Heck it is only money and ya can't take it with ya!

What did you end up getting?

Originally Posted by Jack Feldmann

What did you end up getting?

I have not pulled the trigger yet! (my last post has a typo in it.. I was trying to say that I will just buy one.)

I do not need it in hand till about the second week in March, 2013. I'm going to test drive them at the COA show in October and if I'm still not sure I'll do it again at InspectionWorld in January. Heck it takes me a week or two just to buy a pair of shoes and I have been buying the same shoes by Merrel for a few years!

I have decided that I'm not going above $4k for one. That is all that my "Dave Ramsey" budget will allow. What irks me is all of the pricing games the folks that sell them are playing. I have seen the same camera between 3 vendors priced with as much as an $800 difference between them! It is just as bad as buying a new car.

Originally Posted by Scott Patterson

What irks me is all of the pricing games the folks that sell them are playing. I have seen the same camera between 3 vendors priced with as much as an $800 difference between them! It is just as bad as buying a new car.

Use that to your benefit.

Tell the one with the highest price that you will buy it from them ... 'if' ... if they include: both the telescopic and the wide angle lenses; additional batteries; and whatever extra toy attachments you think you might ever want ... er ... 'practical and useful' attachments you think you might ever 'need' ... then be willing to bit the bullet for an extra $500 for an extra $3,000 of goodies.

Sure, I'll take that Chevy Impala, but I want the following options thrown in at that price: power everything, convertible, extended warranty, all recommended maintenance included, rust proofing undercoating, blah, blah, blah, oh, and I want it at -0-% interest for 10 years ...

When the salesman complains, just say 'You want to SELL it to me or not?', then start heading away to the next vendor ...

Hey Scott, what exactly is the apartment job bid that you got requiring with respect to IR? A bit of training if you haven't already is crucial for proper understanding of conditions, limitations, use and interpretation.

I have had a couple of imagers and personally I feel like a 160x120 or 240x180 with a good sensitity can get you by with being able to perform nearly every application including residential and commmercial.

Naturally there are new products coming out. Has anyone tried one of these?

160 X 120 for $2G

Testo 875 1 875-1 Infrared Camera Thermal Imager

Originally Posted by Randy King

Hey Scott, what exactly is the apartment job bid that you got requiring with respect to IR? A bit of training if you haven't already is crucial for proper understanding of conditions, limitations, use and interpretation.

I have had a couple of imagers and personally I feel like a 160x120 or 240x180 with a good sensitity can get you by with being able to perform nearly every application including residential and commmercial.

It is a USDA rural development authority backed rehabilitation project. Honestly I have no idea why the required the IR, but it was one of the bid requirements of the owner. My guess is that they will want to verify insulation, etc in the units.

If you are limiting your budget to $4000, go with a vendor who will provide a free Level 1 or Home Inspector Certification Training. Good training is important. The thermal sensitivity of a $4000 IR camera is not that good and you will need to know how to manipulate/ create good conditions to find hidden moisture/anomalies.

Sounds good Scott. If it is primarily for insulation concerns/issues and you intend on using the imager for home inspections outside of that project you should be able to find an imager that will fit your needs.

I agree with many others, in that you should try to get as much as you can afford now. It always seems like once people find how useful the technology can be and the limitations you might have with less of an imager or those few extra features you didn't get you will find yourself wishing you would have just spent an extra $500 or more just to get the next step up and Linas is absolutely right training is certainly a must.

My personal suggestion would also be to look up ASTM C1060-11a or another standard if you will indeed be looking to identify insulation issues. As a side note - how did you get lined up to bid for such a job?

Originally Posted by Randy King

As a side note - how did you get lined up to bid for such a job?

I was contacted and asked to submit the bid. They found me though my involvement with the profession (ASHI and EBPHI) and through some recommendations from a couple of bank that I have dealt with over the years.

It is not just an IR job by any means. The scope of work covers; site analysis; construction loan analysis; pre-construction review; monthly project meetings and monthly draw inspections. The IR work to my understanding is just an add on to make some energy paper pusher's happy! They will have their own energy star ratings done on the units through the builders scope of work.

Originally Posted by Linas Dapkus

If you are limiting your budget to $4000, go with a vendor who will provide a free Level 1 or Home Inspector Certification Training. Good training is important. The thermal sensitivity of a $4000 IR camera is not that good and you will need to know how to manipulate/ create good conditions to find hidden moisture/anomalies.

Oh, I agree that the training is very important. I will buy the best that I can afford at the time. Just as with any type of electronic technology the item you buy is out dated just about as soon as you make the purchase. You just do what you can do and then upgrade when you can.

Unless you plan on using a thermal imager full time why not rent the best and cost plus into your bid.

Originally Posted by BARRY ADAIR

Unless you plan on using a thermal imager full time why not rent the best and cost plus into your bid.

That was a consideration, but whenever possible I try to get my play toys paid for by clients. I build it into the price ($4,500) of the bid and at the end of the project I have a new toy that is paid for.

Originally Posted by Scott Patterson

That was a consideration, but whenever possible I try to get my play toys paid for by clients. I build it into the price ($4,500) of the bid and at the end of the project I have a new toy that is paid for.

Thats what I do with my woodworking business. I make some odd things, and never really know what they are used for. It makes it odd when I have to ask questions.

I purchased a Fluke TiR1 about a year ago. I love it!
It has helped me out several times in finding/verifying problems and has made a difference in the number of jobs I have gotten. Strong selling point.

I do not charge for the use of the camera, but I do let the customers know that I do have one and have verified my findings with it. The customers really like it.

I was asked to map a in floor garage heating system so they would not cut into the lines during a construction expansion. After agreeing to go practice on the garage floor I quickly learned how fast you can get into trouble with one of these things. They are a great tool but by no means a toy!

Buy one and take it out on every job you do and learn how to use it properly.

I charge $100 to take it out if the case and have paid for it many times over. Granted, I often take it out of the case when they say they don't need the service and don't I get my $100
But I think it makes sense to offer it as an additional service. You do need to pay for that equipment.
I haven't taken any training but it doesn't seem like rocket science to me. it's just a picture of temperatures. I think I can ID missing insulation and wet areas as well as anybody else.

"I haven't taken any training but it doesn't seem like rocket science to me. it's just a picture of temperatures. "
Benjamin, no offense, but I think that is a very shortsighted view, and just might get you in hot water in the future.

I am by no means an expert with these cameras. I don't even own one. However, I have sat in several continuing education classes about them. I remember one in particular where the instructor was showing examples of false positives and false negatives, and explaining how proper training was very important.
Just saying........

No offence taken, I get your point. I don't make any conclusions until I follow up with a moisture meter, my tramex wet wall meter or probing for insulation. The only things I use it for are moisture and insulation.

Originally Posted by Steven Turetsky

You may want to look into a Fluke Ti 110. I am not so familiar with that particular model (I use a TiR32), but it is in the range you mention.

If you go to the fluke site, you can compare the models.

In the past I have dealt with Tom Black 410-472-2416, I found him to be an honest man and he usually discounts his prices very nicely.

If you want something used, check out SPI (SPI Infrared: Thermal Imagers, Binoculars, Cameras & Flir Experts | SPI Infrared, they have some interesting deals, but unless you are very familiar with cams, I would avoid a used one. If something goes wrong with the cam, whatever you have saved can be out the window.

Thanks Steven! I called Tom Black right away. Tom sold me the TiR32 for $1K less than I could find it anywhere else - and Fluke threw in the wide angle lens, the extended warranty and a laser measurement device for free! I am enrolled in the level 1 class (held in DC), next month - for less than $1k. Bill

Originally Posted by Bill Bryan

Thanks Steven! I called Tom Black right away. Tom sold me the TiR32 for $1K less than I could find it anywhere else - and Fluke threw in the wide angle lens, the extended warranty and a laser measurement device for free! I am enrolled in the level 1 class (held in DC), next month - for less than $1k. Bill

I'm glad I was able to help. I really don't like recommending anybody for anything unless I have confidence in them. I met Tom when I purchased my TiR32, and in addition to him (and his sons) being so nice, his prices can not be beat, and believe me, I shopped around plenty.

Bill:

What class are you taking in DC? Any contact information?

Will it get you Level 1 certification?
I'm hunting a class now and DC is an easy ride for me.

JLMathis

Give Tom Black a call. Level 1. I'll see you there!

Does anybody have an idea as to why the IR classes are so expensive? Do they run for multiple days?

If I remember correctly, the level 1 class lasted 3 or 4 days. Included lunches.

Took my level one through Snell in Chicago cost about 2k. Fortunately was able to stay with. My daughter for the week and this really saved on lodging and meals and parking. I figure that would have been at least another grand or so.
the training is definitely worth it.
Scott what did you end up getting?
i have the TIR and will be upgrading when the new fluke comes out this fall. I expect it to be 10k or so

Ran across this thread, haven't visited in awhile, but hoping some images may be useful to others.

As I've been lucky enough to use a few different cameras, I can say that that the differences in sensitivity and resolution are huge. Until you've had a chance to use a few imagers, it's hard to realize the differences in these devices by the spec sheet. Once I went to a class for ITC/Flir for a few days, only then did I understand why many people say to go to a class *first*. You'll get to see a bunch of different technology.

But it makes very little sense to spend $1800 on training when you don't own a camera, right? Maybe...

Having said that, here's a few pictures taken with a B60, E40 and a T420 for those that are looking to get into this technology. I don't have any of the very entry level cameras, even the B60 is a very capable device.

Notice the pic from the closet... if you *really* look at the visual/standard image, *maybe* you can see some part of a leak, but at the same time, how long would you look in the closet on site?

Tim
I was waiting on the new Fluke TI400; it was just released. I got my hands on the new T420 FLIR with the MSX and what a difference.
I am going with the FLIR

Hey Mark,

I hope all is well.

Steve

Originally Posted by Steven Turetsky

Hey Mark,

I hope all is well.

Steve

All is well thanks.

Steve
What kind of camera do you have?

Originally Posted by Mark Parlee

All is well thanks.

Steve
What kind of camera do you have?

I use a Fluke TiR32 and it does well, but you've raised my interest and I will look at what you describe.

Originally Posted by Mark Parlee

Tim
I was waiting on the new Fluke TI400; it was just released. I got my hands on the new T420 FLIR with the MSX and what a difference.
I am going with the FLIR

Both very capable tools for sure, I use the Flir as well. What made you decide to go the route you did?

I've used the Wifi / Flir Tools via a Droid tablet in the field, the feel and easy navigation for functions like meas. boxes, level and span along with anything else was a short learning curve.

Tim

I got an email from FLIR the day before I was going to order the Fluke. I had been waiting fro the TI400 which looks to be a good camera.
I decided to check out the FLIR and the MSX was a cool addition. It makes the photo pop and that is what I need in my consulting reports. I also like the warranty and the price I was quoted. I got the upgraded software and the wide angle lense.
I like the ability to view it from my IPAD,; this is a game changer being to hand the IPAD to my client.
The new moisture meter that inputs its readings to the camera is also a good selling point.

Steve
You do need to look at this camera if you are at all considering updating. Send me an email and I will let you know the price. list is 8495 plus 1050 for the 45 degree wide angle. you can get it for at leas a 1200 less.v and get a gift card for 400 bucks

At Home Depot this weekend and noticed in their tool rental area that they have available a FLIR camera for rent! FLIR Infrared Camera Rental at The Home Depot | FLIR Systems, Inc.. I don't know if that's a good or bad thing, I just found it to be interesting...

I have both, TI32 and T620. They both have their good qualities. Obviously the flir has a higher res and more bells and whistles.. I don't use the Ipad connect, but may be usefulf or showing clients your findings in real time

Originally Posted by Mark Parlee

Tim

I got an email from FLIR the day before I was going to order the Fluke. I had been waiting fro the TI400 which looks to be a good camera.
I decided to check out the FLIR and the MSX was a cool addition. It makes the photo pop and that is what I need in my consulting reports. I also like the warranty and the price I was quoted. I got the upgraded software and the wide angle lense.
I like the ability to view it from my IPAD,; this is a game changer being to hand the IPAD to my client.
The new moisture meter that inputs its readings to the camera is also a good selling point.

Steve
You do need to look at this camera if you are at all considering updating. Send me an email and I will let you know the price. list is 8495 plus 1050 for the 45 degree wide angle. you can get it for at leas a 1200 less.v and get a gift card for 400 bucks

Update
I had the FLIR T420 for 16 months. Fluke finally sent me a T400 to test and I did like it. Meantime Fluke came out with the Tix520.
I sold my FLIR and bought the new Fluke. This takes incredible pictures but it does have a couple of quirks. If anyone is thinking of making this purchase get in touch directly with me and I will give you a couple of points of advice.
I am still working out a couple of kinks and will not post publicly yet.

Another update
Sending back the Tix520 and buying the Tix560

Another update
Sending back the Tix520 and buying the Tix560

Originally Posted by Scott Patterson

If a home inspector wanted to invest in an IR camera with an SD card and has a $3000 to $4000 budget what are some good options?

What brands?

Which ones should you avoid?

This camera would be used to help the inspector in their normal inspection routine and to also help contend with competition that has started to use IR cameras as a selling point for their inspections.

My first IR purchase was an entry level Fluke.
Under $3,000 Canadian. About $2,200 American.
Fluke Ti100 9hz.
Very helpful equipment when surveying.
If you shop around you should be able to get a 60hz camera for under $3,000.

Brands, personally, Flir and Fluke. Solid North American camera's.
Testo 870 series is surprising.

Scott,
Best of luck with your Infrared endeavors.
I have not regretted my investments from day one.
Fluke Ti100 9hz - Ti300 60hz
If your student was In Montreal Quebec I would loan him my Ti100 camera to take courses.

Originally Posted by ROBERT YOUNG

My first IR purchase was an entry level Fluke.
Under $3,000 Canadian. About $2,200 American.
Fluke Ti100 9hz.
Very helpful equipment when surveying.
If you shop around you should be able to get a 60hz camera for under $3,000.

Brands, personally, Flir and Fluke. Solid North American camera's.
Testo 870 series is surprising.

Scott,
Best of luck with your Infrared endeavors.
I have not regretted my investments from day one.
Fluke Ti100 9hz - Ti300 60hz
If your student was In Montreal Quebec I would loan him my Ti100 camera to take courses.

Hey, Robert… This tread is a few years old.. I chose the Flir E6 and have been pleased with it. Great camera for the price.

Originally Posted by Scott Patterson

Hey, Robert… This tread is a few years old.. I chose the Flir E6 and have been pleased with it. Great camera for the price.

Scott
My fault, I resurrected it with my updates.

Originally Posted by Mark Parlee

Scott
My fault, I resurrected it with my updates.

Hi Mark, not a problem…. sometimes it's good to revisit old threads….. Hope all is well!

Originally Posted by Scott Patterson

Hi Mark, not a problem…. sometimes it's good to revisit old threads….. Hope all is well!

All is well.
I am looking forward to the new camera; I use it almost everyday.
The moisture intrusion and construction defects consulting has been good.
Sorry for my clients but at least I can help them out.

Most probably don't need one this high end but it sure lets my clients see what I see with ease due to the big screen. The articulating lens is a nice feature, I don't have to walk around with my arms up in the air.

Thanks.
My mistake.