Thread: Level I Class ITC

If you are skeptical about whether the Level 1 class is worth it, I will tell you that it definitely is. I was also skeptical, but it is well worth the money. If you have not bought a camera yet, I recommend that you take the class before you buy one. You can rent from Flir for the class, and that will give you a better idea of what features you will need for home inspection. I wish I had taken the class first. I probably would have spent more on the camera after taking the class.

Originally Posted by Jim Robinson

If you are skeptical about whether the Level 1 class is worth it, I will tell you that it definitely is. I was also skeptical, but it is well worth the money. If you have not bought a camera yet, I recommend that you take the class before you buy one. You can rent from Flir for the class, and that will give you a better idea of what features you will need for home inspection. I wish I had taken the class first. I probably would have spent more on the camera after taking the class.

I've been certified through Infraspection as well as ITC and I have to say, ITC were excellent classes.

Originally Posted by Jim Robinson

If you are skeptical about whether the Level 1 class is worth it, I will tell you that it definitely is. I was also skeptical, but it is well worth the money. If you have not bought a camera yet, I recommend that you take the class before you buy one. You can rent from Flir for the class, and that will give you a better idea of what features you will need for home inspection. I wish I had taken the class first. I probably would have spent more on the camera after taking the class.

I recently bought the FLIR e60 bx camera because of the ability to link wirelessly to the Extech moisture meter. I too just completed the ITC Level I training and was surprised at how complex the subject of thermography really is. The ITC training is top notch. I highly recommend buying the most camera you can afford and get familiar with how to operate it before doing the training. Much of the 3rd day of training is centered on actual use of the camera and learning how to correctly 'thermally tune' your images and how the FLIR software works. If you don't already understand the basic operation of the camera you will not get the full benefit of this part of the training. If you don't own a camera yet rent one in advance, learn the basics, and take it with you to the training.

Being in the water intrusion business I expected most of the course to be about that. It wasn't. Of 36 attending, only 4 of us were concerned with detection of water. The rest of the class were people who inspect electrical, furnaces, energy efficiency, and other industrial applications.

One thing I have come to realize. Thermal imaging is an incredibly useful tool when inspecting buildings and doing building diagnostics. It's also a very effective marketing tool. It draws new clients and impresses all who observe the process.

Don Putnam
Putnam Construction Consulting
www.roofconsulting.com

Originally Posted by Don Putnam

It's also a very effective marketing tool.

I've had people call asking if I have a camera - I do. But when I tell them I don't use it very often they lose interest in hiring me. Marketing has convince some people that the IR way is the only way to go. I won't debate that some of the technology is great to have but it can't replace good old snooping around. In my view the more effective marketing concentrates on the inspector's experience and continuing education. The equipment is more of a sideline fluff.

A marketing tool is unfortunately what it has become for many.
Potential clients don't ask me about IR all that often but when they do I tell them I only pull it out if I get suspicious about something.
I don't know any good inspector who pulls it out all the time as a standard practice. It's a good dog and pony show for checkbox guys.

Originally Posted by Eric Barker

I've had people call asking if I have a camera - I do. But when I tell them I don't use it very often they lose interest in hiring me. Marketing has convince some people that the IR way is the only way to go.

Originally Posted by Markus Keller

A marketing tool is unfortunately what it has become for many.
Potential clients don't ask me about IR all that often but when they do I tell them I only pull it out if I get suspicious about something.

Having a tool like that and not using it as often as you can is a shame. There is so much more you can see with that than you are now seeing, those areas you are not suspicious of ... you may find out that you should have been suspicious of them if you had used the infrared camera.

I don't know any good inspector who pulls it out all the time as a standard practice. It's a good dog and pony show for checkbox guys.

I pulled mine out and used it at every inspection - you guys would be amazed at what you are NOT seeing by not using your cameras.

Not having a camera is one thing, but to have the means available to you and not use it ... totally crazy and waste of money to even have the camera if you are not going to make best use of it. Might as well not bother to turn your flashlight on until you are suspicious of something, no need to use it to see in the dark 'just because and to look around' ... amounts to the same thing as having an IR camera and not using it all the time.

Originally Posted by Jerry Peck

Having a tool like that and not using it as often as you can is a shame. There is so much more you can see with that than you are now seeing, those areas you are not suspicious of ... you may find out that you should have been suspicious of them if you had used the infrared camera.



I pulled mine out and used it at every inspection - you guys would be amazed at what you are NOT seeing by not using your cameras.

Not having a camera is one thing, but to have the means available to you and not use it ... totally crazy and waste of money to even have the camera if you are not going to make best use of it. Might as well not bother to turn your flashlight on until you are suspicious of something, no need to use it to see in the dark 'just because and to look around' ... amounts to the same thing as having an IR camera and not using it all the time.

Excellent, well said. I could post a new pic of a new find ever day here.

While I agree with your premise that not using a camera all the time can be a waste, I have to disagree that its necessary all the time.
It just isn't. Maybe down in FL with all the humidity and moisture problems but not here in vintage brick land. If a guy can't see the tell tale signs of problems in our vintage construction then he isn't worth the preprinted crap report he hands over at the end of his 1 hour home inspection.
If a guy told me he needed an IR camera to do a brick bungalow, we wouldn't be doing business.
On the other hand it is very rare for me not to pull it out on NC. In those cases its a slam dunk to nail a developer for lack of insulation, crap caulking and J-channel that is proud of the siding and allowing beautiful water streaks to come down along the windows.
The IR camera is a good tool but this notion of needing it all the time is marketing crap. I've been a secret consultant on a couple jobs where people had an HI doing an inspection using his IR camera, I could barely contain myself listening to the puke that was being generated.

Originally Posted by Markus Keller

While I agree with your premise that not using a camera all the time can be a waste, I have to disagree that its necessary all the time.

Not "all the time", as in no one uses their flashlight "all the time" either; but "all the time" as in "every inspection".

The best way to think of, and use, an IR camera is that it is like turning the flashlight on to see what you cannot see in the dark areas. Do you 'just' use your flashlight in a totally dark attic or crawlspace? I doubt it, you probably use your flashlight when looking around things where there is not much light.

That is all the IR camera does for you in the most basic sense - it is your 'better flashlight'.

Stop limiting yourself by not turning on and using your 'better flashlight' to see all the missing insulation which you cannot see (will work even better in areas where it gets cold than where it stays warmer most of the time).

Stop thinking of an IR camera as an 'expensive moisture meter', besides, the IR camera does not show or confirm 'moisture' ... all the IR camera does is show 'temperature differences' - now, what those 'temperature differences' are trying to tell you is for you to figure out and understand, which one will do well after using their IR camera for awhile and, when that light goes on and that person says 'Nooowww I get it!' - that person will have two great tools to use: a) their flashlight to bring light to dark spaces so they can see; b) their IR camera to bring light to the plain brown wrapper around everything so they can really see.

The IR camera is a good tool but this notion of needing it all the time is marketing crap. I've been a secret consultant on a couple jobs where people had an HI doing an inspection using his IR camera, I could barely contain myself listening to the puke that was being generated.

I'm sure you also heard lots of inspectors over-tout the benefits or their moisture meter, electrical circuit testers, even their own abilities ... naw ... no one ever does that, that is only done when they have an IR camera ... NOT! That is done all the time, by everyone of us, to some degree, and it may or may not be intentional.

The best advice is that if you have an IR camera you should pull it out and use it on every inspection ... you will very quickly see what you have not been able to see before, and wonder how much of this stuff you have been missing for all those years

When I first got mine back in 2004, I looked at everything with it and soon realized how blind I had been before - not unlike walking into a dark attic and squinting, then someone ask 'Don't you have a flashlight?', you answer 'Of course, but I don't use it unless I can see that I need it?

Huh? Does that sound as dumb to you as it does to me? Do you wait to use your electrical circuit tester only when you see you need it? If so, please tell me what you see when you see that you need to use it - inquiring minds want to know what to look for.

The truth is, you will only know and understand what you are 'not seeing' after you are able to 'see it' - I hope that makes sense to you.

Remember this?:
- there are known knowns (things we know we know)
- there are known unknowns (things we know we don't know)
- there are unknown knowns (things we don't know we know)
- and there are unknown unknowns (things we don't know we don't know)

The IR camera helps you know some of those unknown knowns and unknown unknowns - personally, I prefer to try to know what I know and don't know, makes understanding what I don't know better ... or something like that ...

Originally Posted by Markus Keller

While I agree with your premise that not using a camera all the time can be a waste, I have to disagree that its necessary all the time.
It just isn't. Maybe down in FL with all the humidity and moisture problems but not here in vintage brick land. If a guy can't see the tell tale signs of problems in our vintage construction then he isn't worth the preprinted crap report he hands over at the end of his 1 hour home inspection.
If a guy told me he needed an IR camera to do a brick bungalow, we wouldn't be doing business.
On the other hand it is very rare for me not to pull it out on NC. In those cases its a slam dunk to nail a developer for lack of insulation, crap caulking and J-channel that is proud of the siding and allowing beautiful water streaks to come down along the windows.
The IR camera is a good tool but this notion of needing it all the time is marketing crap. I've been a secret consultant on a couple jobs where people had an HI doing an inspection using his IR camera, I could barely contain myself listening to the puke that was being generated.

I disagree. Almost all moisture leaks I find have no stain or other indicator that there is moisture present. Ditto for all electrical issues I find.
I walked by this leak 100 times yesterday...only until I pulled out the IR did I see it. I'm sure I cold have combed over the entire 1500 sq ft of ceiling to find it with a MM but that would be ridicules since I have this camera. Just dodging bullets..

Marc M,

Would you tell us approximately how many total minutes you are using your IR camera during a typical inspection - I am sure many would be surprised how little time is actually needed for the IR camera, especially considering that you find things that you simply would not otherwise find.

I suspect that some think that using an IR camera takes time, a lot of time, when in reality I found that it actually saved time at the same time I was finding things I would not otherwise have found. And I've been retired and out of the business almost 8 years now - I'm sure that there has been leaps and bounds made in the cameras, their ease of use, and what inspectors have found they are useful for.

No, an IR camera will not 'make a man out of you', nor 'grow hair on your chest', or even make you the darling of clients like IR cameras did 'back then' - but an IR camera will allow you to "see" what you could not see before.

Originally Posted by Jerry Peck

Marc M,

Would you tell us approximately how many total minutes you are using your IR camera during a typical inspection - I am sure many would be surprised how little time is actually needed for the IR camera, especially considering that you find things that you simply would not otherwise find.

I suspect that some think that using an IR camera takes time, a lot of time, when in reality I found that it actually saved time at the same time I was finding things I would not otherwise have found. And I've been retired and out of the business almost 8 years now - I'm sure that there has been leaps and bounds made in the cameras, their ease of use, and what inspectors have found they are useful for.

No, an IR camera will not 'make a man out of you', nor 'grow hair on your chest', or even make you the darling of clients like IR cameras did 'back then' - but an IR camera will allow you to "see" what you could not see before.

Sure,
For home inspections, will I scan the house twice. Once in the beginning to establish a base line and then again after the inspection is complete. In total, I may spend 15 minutes scanning for example, 3000 sq ft house including a panel. The issues we see truly are amazing.

Originally Posted by Marc M

The issues we see truly are amazing.

Agreed, the number of leaks in random locations (especially ceilings) that presented no stains or other visual clues is eye opening.

Dom.

Originally Posted by Dom D'Agostino

Agreed, the number of leaks in random locations (especially ceilings) that presented no stains or other visual clues is eye opening.

Dom.

I'm going to take this class and have friend that will let me use his camera . How hard is the test? Should I study before? If so ,what ?

Test is very easy. Pass rate is 100%, or very close to it. You don't need to study ahead of time at all.

When I took mine back then, the class went into many things about infrared, then into what cameras do/see, then into the operation and use of the camera - the test covered a lot of work that class covered, then covered the operation of the camera.

As others said - the passing rate was close to 100%.

I don't know how much it has changed.

Originally Posted by Jerry Peck

When I took mine back then, the class went into many things about infrared, then into what cameras do/see, then into the operation and use of the camera - the test covered a lot of work that class covered, then covered the operation of the camera.

As others said - the passing rate was close to 100%.

I don't know how much it has changed.

Great thanks. I have a few months to wait so I'll read up on it when I can. Any do's and don'ts for starting thermal imaging business ?

Originally Posted by Stephan perry

I'm going to take this class and have friend that will let me use his camera . How hard is the test? Should I study before? If so ,what ?

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