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  1. #1
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    Default 1027 measurement intervals

    I have 4 1027's. I got them used. Before I sent two of them for calibration I had practiced using them. They were recording at 4 hr intervals. When they got back from the calibration at Sun Nuc, they were set to measure at 1 hr intervals. So, they made that change.

    I know there are internal switches for 1, 4, 12, or 24 hr intervals.

    Is there an EPA standard that should be met for the interval setting?

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  2. #2
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    Default Re: 1027 measurement intervals

    You want an hourly reading.

    Scott Patterson, ACI
    Spring Hill, TN
    www.traceinspections.com

  3. #3
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    Default Re: 1027 measurement intervals

    Quote Originally Posted by Scott Patterson View Post
    You want an hourly reading.
    Just for the sake of discussion, why?


  4. #4
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    Default Re: 1027 measurement intervals

    John,

    Not being a radon tester, I would imagine for several reasons, including: hourly readings show you a more accurate picture of what went on during the test period; if there is a disturbance and the disturbance was corrected, you could start the time period from that next hourly reading and continue on for the required number of hours.

    I am sure that Scott, being trained in radon (where I am not) will have many more to add.

    Jerry Peck, Construction / Litigation Consultant
    Construction Litigation Consultants, LLC ( www.ConstructionLitigationConsultants.com )
    www.AskCodeMan.com

  5. #5
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    Default Re: 1027 measurement intervals

    I know the 1027 will record and save up to 90 intervals of data. So if it's set at 1 hr intervals, then the max deployment time with recorded data would be less then 3 days.

    When set at 4 hours intervals, you can get recorded data up to 15 days.

    I would like to know if the EPA or other regulatory bodies require a minimum interval. I've looked a little bit but haven't found the answer yet. It was probably right in my face somewhere.


  6. #6
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    Default Re: 1027 measurement intervals

    Quote Originally Posted by John Dirks Jr View Post
    I know the 1027 will record and save up to 90 intervals of data. So if it's set at 1 hr intervals, then the max deployment time with recorded data would be less then 3 days.

    When set at 4 hours intervals, you can get recorded data up to 15 days.

    I would like to know if the EPA or other regulatory bodies require a minimum interval. I've looked a little bit but haven't found the answer yet. It was probably right in my face somewhere.
    Jerry did touch on some reasons for the hourly readings. Other reason deal with environmental conditions that are present during the test. You will see swings or changes in the readings throughout the test period, this is normal.

    Lets say that you see higher readings between the hours of 6 AM and 8 AM every morning? Well, if you think about and do a little asking you might find that this is when the homeowners are taking showers and getting ready for work. This then might put up a Red Flag that the water is causing the radon levels to increase. You could have high levels in the water.

    Or you see high levels during the day and it drops off to nothing at night after everyone gets home. Could be that the homeowners are opening all of the windows to air out the home and skew the results.

    You really do not need 15 days of testing, this does not fit into the protocols. You have 48 hours of testing for short term (real estate transactions) and over 91 days for long term testing per EPA protocols.

    All of this is covered or should be covered under any good training course. If you have not attended a course you should look into it. You can obtain the training, take the certification exam and become listed as a tester in a few days. Regional Radon Training Centers | Radon | US EPA Go to this site and you can see what is being held in your area. I think that one class is being held in Nashville, TN in late October. Easy city to fly into or drive if you need to get the education and take the exam. This class is put on by the Auburn University School of Engineering.

    Last edited by Scott Patterson; 09-21-2009 at 08:38 AM.
    Scott Patterson, ACI
    Spring Hill, TN
    www.traceinspections.com

  7. #7
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    Default Re: 1027 measurement intervals

    Scott, I have the NEHA-NRPP cert already.

    It's false to say 15 day tests don't fit protocol. The minimum test time by EPA protocol is 48 hrs. That is the minimum short term duration. 15 days is also considered short term by EPA protocol. Anything under 90 days is short term and within protocol.

    I do testing for radon outside of real estate transactions. In these cases, a 15 day test is better than a 2 day test.

    15 day tests do fit into EPA protocols as short term testing and may provide a better average than a 48 hr test. The 48 hr minimum was set for the rushed nature of the real estate transaction.

    I agree that 1 hr intervals will give more data on a 2 day test. I'll keep two CRM's at that setting. I'll set another for 4 hr intervals so it can record for longer periods if so desired.

    I think the EPA protocol says the CRM devices must measure at a minimum of 4 hr intervals for short term testing. I'll try to find the quote. I'll post it if I can find it.


  8. #8
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    Default Re: 1027 measurement intervals

    I found info about short term options for real estate on page 17 of the following document.

    http://www.epa.gov/radon001/pdfs/homes_protocols.pdf

    In the single test option it requires the device to record a measurement at least once every hour. So that answers the question on 48 hr tests for sure.

    I have not yet found anything about short term tests that are not associated with real estate transactions. I don't know if the same rule applies to a 15 day short term test outside of a real estate transaction.


  9. #9
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    Default Re: 1027 measurement intervals

    Quote Originally Posted by John Dirks Jr View Post
    I found info about short term options for real estate on page 17 of the following document.

    http://www.epa.gov/radon001/pdfs/homes_protocols.pdf

    In the single test option it requires the device to record a measurement at least once every hour. So that answers the question on 48 hr tests for sure.

    I have not yet found anything about short term tests that are not associated with real estate transactions. I don't know if the same rule applies to a 15 day short term test outside of a real estate transaction.
    In one of the EPA documents/pamphlets it tells about short term test and how they are to be used only for real estate transactions. Long term are for everything else, if you are testing for less than 91 days it is not considered a long term test. For long term I use alpha track devices.

    Scott Patterson, ACI
    Spring Hill, TN
    www.traceinspections.com

  10. #10
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    Default Re: 1027 measurement intervals

    Quote Originally Posted by John Dirks Jr View Post
    Scott, I have the NEHA-NRPP cert already.

    It's false to say 15 day tests don't fit protocol. The minimum test time by EPA protocol is 48 hrs. That is the minimum short term duration. 15 days is also considered short term by EPA protocol. Anything under 90 days is short term and within protocol.
    Yes, you are correct in that a 15 day test is a short term test.
    I do testing for radon outside of real estate transactions. In these cases, a 15 day test is better than a 2 day test.

    15 day tests do fit into EPA protocols as short term testing and may provide a better average than a 48 hr test. The 48 hr minimum was set for the rushed nature of the real estate transaction.

    I agree that 1 hr intervals will give more data on a 2 day test. I'll keep two CRM's at that setting. I'll set another for 4 hr intervals so it can record for longer periods if so desired.

    I think the EPA protocol says the CRM devices must measure at a minimum of 4 hr intervals for short term testing. I'll try to find the quote. I'll post it if I can find it.
    You need to re-read what the short term test is for. It is for real estate sales and not for folks that are living or working in a building. For anything outside of a sale you should be doing a long term test (over 91 days).

    Scott Patterson, ACI
    Spring Hill, TN
    www.traceinspections.com

  11. #11
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    Default Re: 1027 measurement intervals

    Scott,

    I agree that long term testing is better. I also agree that Alpha Track detectors are probably the best way to conduct long term testing.

    Now, back to short term testing. The way I understand it, the EPA wrote protocol for short term testing. The protocol can be applied when a real estate transaction prompted the test. However, I have not found where it says that short term testing is designed only for real estate transactions.

    Can you show me where any governing body prohibits short term testing outside of a real estate transaction?

    In the Citizens Guide to Radon they talk about short term testing both related to, and not related to home sales.

    Yes I agree that long term is better. However, if any home owner wants a test and they want a quicker preliminary result, why not give it to them. Short term testing is better than no testing at all. Isn't it?


  12. #12
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    Default Re: 1027 measurement intervals

    Quote Originally Posted by John Dirks Jr View Post
    Scott,

    I agree that long term testing is better. I also agree that Alpha Track detectors are probably the best way to conduct long term testing.

    Now, back to short term testing. The way I understand it, the EPA wrote protocol for short term testing. The protocol can be applied when a real estate transaction prompted the test. However, I have not found where it says that short term testing is designed only for real estate transactions.

    Can you show me where any governing body prohibits short term testing outside of a real estate transaction?

    In the Citizens Guide to Radon they talk about short term testing both related to, and not related to home sales.

    Yes I agree that long term is better. However, if any home owner wants a test and they want a quicker preliminary result, why not give it to them. Short term testing is better than no testing at all. Isn't it?
    In the Home Buyers and Sellers guide, it talks about real estate transactions and short term testing. Home Buyer's and Seller's Guide to Radon | Radon | US EPA. It might be pretty close to the same as the Citizens Guide. I don't know of any prohibitions for short term testing.

    The EPA does not really prohibit any testing, they just provide the guidelines for how it should be done. I don't know but some State Radon protocol might offer stricter guidelines.

    This is also a section from the EPA Protocols publication: 3.2.3 or page 17
    http://www.epa.gov/radon/pdfs/homes_protocols.pdf

    This section talks about if your device can not take a reading of an hour or less that you should be using a second passive or active device.

    I agree that a longer short term test can help a homeowner, but do you really want to to tie up a CRM for a long period of time when it could be making more money for you doing 48 hour test? The EPA has stated that a 48 hour test works well enough to tell if a mitigation system needs to be installed.

    Scott Patterson, ACI
    Spring Hill, TN
    www.traceinspections.com

  13. #13
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    Default Re: 1027 measurement intervals

    Quote Originally Posted by Scott Patterson View Post
    do you really want to to tie up a CRM for a long period of time
    That is a good point and I was thinking about it.


  14. #14
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    Post Re: 1027 measurement intervals

    I have always understood the EPA protocol to be q1h measurements for a minimum of 48 hours. I will utilize what ever length of time is available, some times 4 or 5 days, to provide a better pool of data. It would be nice to see CRMs that would allow the measurement interval to be sent to any value.

    Randall Aldering GHI BAOM MSM
    Housesmithe Inspection
    www.housesmithe.com

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    Default Re: 1027 measurement intervals

    It hasn't been mentioned yet, but one good (albeit mercenary) reason for keeping the short term test limited to the 48 hour minimum is that you can get your monitor out on another paying job that much quicker.


  16. #16
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    Default Re: 1027 measurement intervals

    Quote Originally Posted by Michael Chambers View Post
    It hasn't been mentioned yet, but one good (albeit mercenary) reason for keeping the short term test limited to the 48 hour minimum is that you can get your monitor out on another paying job that much quicker.
    Post 12

    Scott Patterson, ACI
    Spring Hill, TN
    www.traceinspections.com

  17. #17
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    Default Re: 1027 measurement intervals

    Quote Originally Posted by Scott Patterson View Post
    Post 12
    My mistake! It was late, and my eyes were starting to cross.


  18. #18

    Default Re: 1027 measurement intervals

    Short term tests are essentially those where the doors and windows are closed. (Center for Environmental Research and Technology). You want the monitor to collect samples every hour. Depending on the quality of the monitor some collect many times per hour. This is for increased accuracy. My 1029 will record for 90 days at 1 hour intervals. I upgraded to the 1029, more sampling still cost effective. There are other more expensive monitors out there for several thousand dollars that will be even more accurate. According to the Certi Course Train the Speaker they put out that for a real estate transaction, short term test you "must report and measure in hourly increments and be calibrated".
    Continuous Mo
    When you get a monitor back from calibration from Sun Nuclear be careful, test it out first. I have had some come back with calibration info, date, etc. wrong and have had to send it back.

    Michael Carson
    Inspect It Right Home Inspections L.L.C.
    www.inspectitrighthomeinspection.com

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