Thread: HEALTH INSURANCE IS KILLING ME

I just got my annual increase notice from BCBS health insurance. They are going up $200.00 month. I'll now be paying $1,486.00 per month for health insurance for two people with no dental and a $2,500 annual deductible per person per year.

That much money is the same amount I would pay for a $400K mortgage.

HELP!!!!! PLEASE HELP!!!
Does anyone have a better alternative? (better than death)

Seriously,
What are others doing. I know many have working wives that carry the insurance, but for those that don't what are you doing???

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Ugh! That sucks. I feel for you Ken. I don't know how inspectors like yoursel fwho are the primary earners in a household get by considering insurance premiums like these.

At that cost, I'd get every procedure done that they cover, whether I needed it or not just to feel like I was getting my moneys worth.

At that cost, I'd get every procedure done that they cover, whether I needed it or not just to feel like I was getting my moneys worth.


He has already gotten the Rectal exam.

Originally Posted by Ken Amelin

I just got my annual increase notice from BCBS health insurance. They are going up $200.00 month. I'll now be paying $1,486.00 per month for health insurance for two people with no dental and a $2,500 annual deductible per person per year.

That much money is the same amount I would pay for a $400K mortgage.

HELP!!!!! PLEASE HELP!!!
Does anyone have a better alternative? (better than death)

Seriously,
What are others doing. I know many have working wives that carry the insurance, but for those that don't what are you doing???

Health insurance. What is health insurance. Oh, I remember. That is that stuff that pays the fat mortgages for other people.

1,500 a month, so about 20,000.00 a year with deductible, never mind medicine or dental or eye glasses.

If anyone thinks that in seven years time from when I was covered under my wife that something out there actually raised prices that high (absolutely nothing) they are far more deaply disturbed than I am over this health care cost.

cially since all those people that where driving the price up that did not have it..... we were already paying for them so what could be driving the price up now? Oh wait, I know. Obamas health care plan and the insurance companies taking full advantage of Obama saying "Sure, it will drive up costs in the short run but in the long run everyone (those that do not have health insurance that were already getting paid for by us) will make out in the end. Shoot, I did not mention all the state and federal employees and union workers entitlements....that we are paying more for by the day , week, month and year for ever.

Damn, another rant....sorry about that. There will always be someone (many) that will support us going into the crapper so others can benefit greatly. And more others every day, week, month and year .... forever.

I basically carry catastrophic coverage, meaning a high deductible $5000 policy which costs me about $300 per month only on myself.
I did notice that now my premiums are deductible on my Federal taxes so that eases the pain a little and puts me more on the same level as those with medical care provided through their employer.

Health insurance is by far my company's single biggest expense. It always eats at me a bit when a government worker complains about the cost of his/her inspection.... afterall, they should realize a certain amount of it it going to pay for their health insurance.... whether they realize it or not.

And, I'm not even meaning to get political. I honestly don't even know which side would agree or be offended with what I'm saying (neither? both?). It's just reality. I pay taxes and insurance, and out of that public workers and those with no coverage receive health care..... those are facts.

The way house prices are falling and interest rates are so low I could easily buy a modest house for what I pay in heath care each month.... something is messed up. And, I don't get the feeling anything is going to change anytime soon.

1) You are lucky if you can get insurance at all, for example my wife has had cancer, so she is essentially uninsurable via the private insurance market.

2) You have to be VERY careful when considering "high deductible" insurance policies, the jokers in the deck are 1) co-payment costs once you reach the deductible and 2) such caps as limitations on payments for services such as a hospital stay per day.

For example you run up a $200,000 bill, your deductible is $10,000, your co-payment on the remaining $190,000 is 20% - that's $38,000, which bankrupts a lot of people right there.

But, it gets worse.

Of the insurer's $152,000 responsibility, the caps on payments for various services mean they are only responsible for $84,000 of that - and who do you thing is on the hook for the remaining $68,000?

So your "10,000 deductible" as turned into a $122,000 responsibility - ie a "medical bankruptcy".

And this isn't just a possibility, it's HOW IT WORKS for a lot of these individual "high deductible" policies.

What to do about it?

There are are well-tested alternatives available, much of the rest of the first-world has figured them out, and spent decades "fine tuning" then, and they all have a few critical features in common:

- "Community rating" (everyone is in the risk pool, and must purchase insurance, at least for a core basket of critical services).

- Some type of "rationing" of services (for example, your core insurance don't pay for expensive non-palliative care in the last few weeks or months of life, you don't provide certain kinds of expensive curative care after a certain age, etc.)

- The government sets minimum standards of care and coverage (in many systems, if you want better, you must purchase supplemental private insurance).

- You subsidize core insurance for those who cannot afford it.

With these provisions in place, it does not matter much how the system is actually set up, for example some of these systems meet the criteria above entirely by mandating purchase of private insurance.

Many Americans prefer out own system, but if so they should not complain about our results.

And especially, they should not delude themselves into believing that our system is inherently superior because the other systems are imperfect.

Wherever you go, people complain about their health case system, especially cost and access.

But if you ask a Canadian or German or a Dutchman if they would prefer a US style system - with large numbers of uninsured, people trapped in jobs they hate by insurance concerns and facing the specter if of medical bankruptcy if they loose them, small-businessmen with no viable insurance options at all, rationing of critical services by wealth and income along with hidden public subsidies for rationed care and all these problems at a system-wide cost double or more their own - they will think you are crazy.

For my 14 yr old son and myself I pay about $460 a month with a $2500 deductible with Golden Rule(United Health Care).

The price is very dependent on your age, location and prior health issues.

I went to the emergency room to set up a scan of my insides that my doctor ordered. The hospital will not just do a scan based on what the doctor says so they do a blood test (which the test showed from my doctor...I was dying) and they did an x ray to see if I was blocked up or anything else inside (which I was blocked up so bad and had been it was literally killing me) I was so backed up it looked like I was pregnant. The schmucks sent me home with a prescription for upset stomach and some go lightly and then tried to charge me 14,000.00

Lets see. I am dying. My urine test from the doctor shows deep amber, my blood test shows my body fighting a very serious infection, my xray from the doctor shows I am extremely backed up. my stomach is bloated like I am pregnant. Then the hospital sends me home on that day, Thursday, and tells me to come back next Monday if I am still not feeling good and they try to charge me 14,000.00 for being there for about under an hour and actually seeing someone for 15 minutes.

I have to differ with you greatly Michael. What I just mentioned about the massive fees the hospital tried to charge for being in the hospital for an hour and not doing what my doctor sent me there for in the first place.

That hospital is not the county hospital. That hospital has most of its patience covered by insurance greatly and folks with large amounts of money to pay for it themselves. The hospitals bill 10 fold to much. The insurance companies pay the hospitals 40 to 60 percent of what they bill. The patience are caught in the middle and fall into massive debt do to their asininity.

That hospital also has no shortage of patience. The emergency is busy all the time with insurance paying clients. The hospital beds for over a week that I was there are generally pretty full all the time.

The cost of the hospital for being there for over a week, one of the reasons was not the proper test my doctor prescribed, and getting sicker and sicker by the day, I could not make it past Sunday morning before I went back, they thought they may lose me if the infection did not subside in the first couple days, was about 60,000.00 dollars .......................................... for and appendix operation.

I refused to pay the hospital anything for the emergency room visit and have not to date. The hospital bill has been knocked down about the mid teens and I am still working on getting it to about go away. When I was in the hospital there was a nurse that was about ten times more medicated than me that I reported to the head nurse and she was let go. My surgeon was having them pump about 5 liters of fluid into my veins daily and on Wednesday night my body was drowning, literally so they about killed me again. After they tried to kill me they had to do an in room scan to see if it was blood clots on why I could not breathe and they had a mobile xray machine taking pictures of my chest. Then they sent me down for a cat scan, shot me up with lasic to get rid of the excess fluid in my body about blowing up my kidneys when it started flowing so they had to keep hitting me with morphine to kill the pain and then tried to charge me for having to correct the mistake of my doctor, the emergency room, the nurses not questioning anything about the mass amount of fluids they were trying to kill me with etc etc etc etc etc

Michael. All that is what is wrong with the cost of medical needs, insurance and the medical system in general.
]
Part duo is coming soon about many of your comments. I bet you can barely wait.

Originally Posted by Ted Menelly

That hospital also has no shortage of patience.

Would you say the hospital has the patience of a saint?

Originally Posted by Bruce Breedlove

Would you say the hospital has the patience of a saint?

Hm, a couple of letters sure does make a difference.

Myself and the wife are insured by that company National Association of the Self Employed (NASE) and we've had it for years. We have a 2K deductible on a major health insurance policy that runs about 750. a month. We've had it for about 15 years and they have always paid out on claims really well. It doesn't cover regular type doctor visits or dental so we just pay those out of pocket.

rick

Myself and the wife are insured by that company National Association of the Self Employed (NASE)


I think I've heard of them,
but I thought they were called InterNASE

I'm pretty sure Obama fixed all of this, at least that's what he said???

Small potatoes compared to some of the other posts, but my wife's annual mammogram (included in her insurance package) is supposed to be at no charge to the patient.

Bill to Aetna $1,545

First bill to us. $849.75 (45% reduction due to Aetna agreed pricing). Presumably, the difference reflects the fact that many "folks" (<<< that term, when used by our President, makes me want to vomit) are getting a lot of free health care and we're paying for it.

After "recoding and resubmission" by the provider $293.15. (the new bill arrived Saturday).

uh..... we want the "no charge mammogram", please, that we purchased by paying the $4036/year premium for the plan with the $10,000 deductible.

This iterative process of "recode and resubmit" happens at nearly every contact with the health care system, but especially for services that are to be included in the plan with no charge to the patient.

Wonder what it would be like if we could purchase health insurance coverage like we purchase car insurance (across state lines) and a-la-carte? Personally, I don't think we need the pregnancy coverage etc and I'd rather not pay for other peoples' "26 yr old children".

btw ... it's my personal observation that my "McDonalds Theory" holds true for all professions and services, with rare exception ... and Ted's personal experience is a perfect example.

McDonalds Theory (no offense to McDonalds) The level of competence that the customer (patient in this case) receives is the same as received at the typical McDonalds drive-thru. Therefore, you'd better check it out before you drive away. Higher level of training, but same level of competence.

Interesting read...

Money Won't Buy You Health Insurance

Even in "socialist" Massachusetts, the least expensive medical plan available for a family of four is $895/mo. The difference between MA and other states is twofold:

1) If you make under a certain threshold amount ($44k for a couple, $67k for a family of four) your health care premiums are subsidized.

2) Unlike the author of the piece linked to above, you can't be denied coverage in MA. If coverage is too expensive you can get a waiver of the tax penalty, but that wasn't the author's problem.

Ted,

I'm trying to figure out exactly what your complaint is.

You arrived that the hospital with (you believed) a life threatening condition, and a diagnosis from your doctor.

The ER - which has a lot more collective medical experience and knowledge than your doctor, and which was evaluating your condition as of the time they saw you - performed a complete diagnostic work up.

Perhaps your doctor's initial diagnosis as of the time he or she had last examined you was absolutely correct in every respect.

But the ER's job (and rightly so, especially in a life threatening situation) is to assume that the diagnosis is preliminary - after all, everyone involved would be very unhappy if you died because your treatment was based on an imperfect initial diagnosis, or because your condition had changed since it was made.

Now... how much of that diagnostic workup was absolutely necessary, and how much was "reasonable", and how much was marginally necessary, and how much was pure ass-covering, none of us likely have the medical knowledge to say - which is why it's so important to have objective evaluation of treatments and outcomes, and best practice guidelines based on the results.

Originally Posted by Joseph Peake

Wonder what it would be like if we could purchase health insurance coverage like we purchase car insurance (across state lines) and a-la-carte? Personally, I don't think we need the pregnancy coverage etc and I'd rather not pay for other peoples' "26 yr old children".

Well, the thing is, we pay for these other people's coverage anyway, one way or another, either via taxes or on our insurance bill.

Currently, however, we often do so in an extremely inefficient manner, for example by subsidizing ER care for non-emergency treatment.

Originally Posted by Joseph Peake

This iterative process of "recode and resubmit" happens at nearly every contact with the health care system, but especially for services that are to be included in the plan with no charge to the patient.

In Holland (where my wife's cousin lives, and where we have had a lot of opportunity over the years observe to how "Socialized Medicine" actually works in practice for her and her family) the treatment levels are mandated, and the insurance companies compete largely on the basis of how quickly and accurately they can manage your claims - imagine a world where insurers have a "market incentive" to promptly process valid claims, rather than finding elaborate ways to grind down their customers with resubmission after resubmission so they do not have to pay them!

My wife and I belong to a medical sharing organization and pay just under $300 a month. It is not insurance but you receive the money for your bills from other members.

We have belonged for over 10 years and they have paid for back surgeries, hystorectomy, rotator cuff and more, with no real payment issues.

We do receive a discount when referring others so if you are interested, pm me your name email address and mailing address and I will have the information sent to you.

Originally Posted by Michael Thomas

Ted,

I'm trying to figure out exactly what your complaint is.

You arrived that the hospital with (you believed) a life threatening condition, and a diagnosis from your doctor.

The ER - which has a lot more collective medical experience and knowledge than your doctor, and which was evaluating your condition as of the time they saw you - performed a complete diagnostic work up.

Perhaps your doctor's initial diagnosis as of the time he or she had last examined you was absolutely correct in every respect.

But the ER's job (and rightly so, especially in a life threatening situation) is to assume that the diagnosis is preliminary - after all, everyone involved would be very unhappy if you died because your treatment was based on an imperfect initial diagnosis, or because your condition had changed since it was made.

Now... how much of that diagnostic workup was absolutely necessary, and how much was "reasonable", and how much was marginally necessary, and how much was pure ass-covering, none of us likely have the medical knowledge to say - which is why it's so important to have objective evaluation of treatments and outcomes, and best practice guidelines based on the results.

Mike

I am not sure where your thinking is coming from. I told you a very short version of an extremely long story, exactly what happened, Urine test, blood test and Xrays ...all showing major problems, infection, serious back up, usually a flat stomach but bloated to resemble a pregnant woman/man. Deadly pains shooting across my stomach, exhaustion etc etc etc etc. The hospital said they found no major concern . The hospital did not even do the basic back up test for urine. My doctor sent me to the hospital to get a scan do to the serious nature of all noted above. Do you think for some reason that all those tests performed by my Doctor were throw away tests. Do you think the deadly serious pains I was having, the pregnant look, the black rings around my eyes my urine (which I could almost give none from serious dehydration" was deep amber color. The fact that at this time it is now approaching many days of being backed up. Literally full of it.

Are you kidding me Michael.

How about the Nurses knowing that 5 liters of fluid pumped into a mans system is enough to kill him in a fairly short time. How about the nurses all saying on my return visit that they thought the fluids were a bit on the heavy side but had to go with the doctors order. Five liters a day Mike in my veins. It took Sunday afternoon to Wednesday for me to start bloating in every part of my body and I told them of it and by Thursday morning I looked like a balloon, and almost not able to breathe. How about the nurse almost falling out after entering my room to change location of my IV and she was reaching for the IV bag at six inches away from her hand and could not grab it because it was further than her arms reach and she did not even realize it. Her eyes glazed over as any stoned human could be giggling to herself and eventually called in another nurse to help her.

Do you really think the doctors are better than my doctor at reading blood tests and urine tests and reading a simple xray and knowing I looked pregnant when I usually have a flat stomach and diagnosing an appendix problem. The fact I looked like death warmed over and pains beyond belief. The fact that when I went to the Hospital and checked myself in over a half a week late I was in the process of my systems shutting down, such as one of the first things to shut down is the kidneys and then liver (maybe that is why the body was fighting such a big infection and my urine was almost non existant and amber) as if those couple items are not enough to kill you the rest follow shortly afterward if you are lucky to make it long enough for the rest to shut down. The nurses fearing they may lose me because I came in in such bad shape. The fact that I was in a private room in that hospital where they only put people that are possibly on their way out.

Now wait a minute. I already explained all that in short to you and you still were unaware of the seriousness of the nature of things.

Hey Mike. How about this. All I went to the hospital for was a cat scan that I had cash in hand for and I presented them with a CD with all the tests and xrays and written diagnosis with an explanation that I was there solely for a cat scan for follow up which ......they never frigging did with all this work up, evidence, visual dead man walking in there, back ground on a perfectly healthy person, them pushing on my mid section everywhere saying "does it hurt here" and the answer yes for everywhere.

You appear to be way caught up on some other strange facts and procedures. You are under the impression that the typical doctor and patients history should be total disregard when even with their x ray, physical exam, blood work all showed the exact same thing as my doctor and they did not even do a urine exam. Lets see. There response to about the absolute basic "he has about the most serious absolute easiest to read major symptoms of either a perforated appendix that ever walked into a hospital" and to go home and if I do not feel better by next Monday (with bodily waist exiting out of my intestine into my abdominal cavity...for days) if I do not feel better. Every Doctor coming straight out of Med school or not even out of med school can diagnose appendix problems with the exception of the Doctor in this emergency room. What part of any of that do you not get with a little longer explanation that previous.

All I can say is absolutely .......WOW.

And by the way. I did not think I had life threatening illness..... I was and new I was dying. There was no I think. Do you really think it is an impossibility to know when you are dying. I guess we need to send all the Doctors in the Doctors offices around the country home and then back to school to diagnose an appendix. This was not appendicitis or even a burst appendix. This was an appendix that slowly died inside of me and eventually perforated and let all the nasty crap (literally) leak out inside of me.

Any Moron on the face of the planet that was even part way thru medical school could have made a diagnosis in this case Mike. The only Diagnosis and guessing game was on the behalf of the incompetent and or egotistical ass of a Doctor on duty that particular afternoon then of course my surgeon at scripting so much fluid and maybe the rest of the nurses either not seeing or ignoring the nurse that was falling down and had to call for help and and and and.

Now if you want even a more complete, as in the entire story I can go on for quite some times as there is way more to this.

Do you really thing that everyone on the planet is an ignorant fool ?

Maybe you would like to go to that hospital for a diagnosis for what ever might be ailing you. Oh yeah, then spend over a week in there recovering from almost dying.

Here is the best one of all. No one and I repeat no one in that hospital told me how bad off I was until a month later when I came for a follow up to my surgeon. I new and my doctor new how bad I was but it turned out to be far worse than even we thought it was. Every nurse there, maybe 5, when I returned, sat there talking away at how bad my surgeon thought I was and everyone from the ER that was involved. None of them told me or a family member or friends that there was any chance of losing me. Not war stories oer exagerated facts.

I certainly hope I cleared things up for you a bit.

I pay out of pocket to the Doc in the box, all meds come through the internet via Canada. There is no way to pay for insurance for my wife and I...so we have life insurance. If one of us die the other can buy insurance. LOL

The system is flawed on a lot of levels... docs practicing defensive medicine to avoid being sued is a big flaw. They're scared of malpractice suits so they over prescribe things such as MRI's and CT Scans when they don't need to. Oh, and it's said they get a kick back from the MRI centers as well... shocking.

States like Mass and New Jersey are tough... on the one hand, you're fortunate in that it's guaranteed issue (NJ is I know) but the downside is that you get raped in price.

You might want to look into a Chamber of Commerce plan in your area... sometimes they offer competitive plans at reasonable rates.

Ted,

I'm knee deep in inspections and reports at the moment (first week this year I've actually been overworked) , bit I'll read that carefully when I get a chance.

Originally Posted by Stephen Houmard

I pay out of pocket to the Doc in the box, all meds come through the internet via Canada. There is no way to pay for insurance for my wife and I...so we have life insurance. If one of us die the other can buy insurance. LOL

There ya'' go - is this a great country, or what?

Small business are 3-4 times the share of the economy in much of Western Europe than they are here, and one major reason is that insurance is available.

If you travel internationally to other advanced countries - and especially if you know ordinary people well enough to see how they actually live - you soon realize that Americans are fed SO MUCH BS about how things work elsewhere... and the idea that the US is the the best place on the planet - or even a particularly good place - own a small business is just one more of them.

Life isn't perfect in such places - taxes are higher and the material standards of living are lower - smaller houses, smaller cars - but no one is worrying that they will be bankrupted by medical bills, either, or has to put their entire family at uninsured risk for years at a time if they want to start a small business

I think it's funny how some people will blame a President that's had 2 years in office for all the woes of a screwed up system that's been sliding downhill for decades.
The hick country of Canada adopted Medicare in the mid 60's. The cash for doctors and hospitals comes form income tax. We pay more income tax than you guys do. We pay more for gasoline, because it is taxed heavily. More for food, etc. Medical costs are going up, so what will that do to our tax bills?
But we all get equally reasonable treatment from the doc, because he gets his $60 or so for 15 minutes, no matter who you are. It's like Communism, eh?
The citizens of the USA chose long ago not to have Medicare, because they did not want to pay higher taxes. So you pay through the noses for private insurance. Private medical practices, etc. Cheap gas, though.

Health care in Canada - Wikipedia, the free encyclopedia

In today's mail I received a notice from my insurance company that my new monthly premiums are going uo $87 due to Obama Care! It spells it out in the letter what is now covered, but when I really looked at what changed it will not make any difference to me in the long run. So now I get to spend about $1,000 more a year for health care insurance.

Originally Posted by Scott Patterson

In today's mail I received a notice from my insurance company that my new monthly premiums are going up $87 due to Obama Care! It spells it out in the letter what is now covered, but when I really looked at what changed it will not make any difference to me in the long run. So now I get to spend about $1,000 more a year for health care insurance.

So, when Obama care is repealed completely are the insurance companies going to give back all the extra money they charged millions and millions of clients.

Does anyone actually realize how much money the insurance companies are pulling in right now at a thou a year for millions of policies.

Billions and billions of dollars

Health insurance companies became more prevalent and when they did they started paying the Doctors less and less and the Doctors started charging more and more and it has continued thru time

As far as paying for the folks with no insurance ......We already were so why will we be not only paying more for health insurance but also paying more every single place we get a service from or by something at retail from or even whole sale.

Every single item or service for sale is costing everyone more .... and we are paying more for health insurance and spending more for medicine, doctors visits, hospital stays

Billions and Billions and Billions a year more are being charged on top of what they were all charging if you add it all up and we are getting less of a service and paying more

Doesn't anyone see this at all

We are being raped from the insurance companies and the Government a whole lot more for something that was already paid for