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  1. #1
    Kirk Hersee's Avatar
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    Default Dog Breeds- 'the list'

    Does anyone know of any references (links, etc...)to the dog breeds that insurance companies (in massachusetts) have issues with. Most of my inspections are for the Mass Fair Plan (or Massachusetts Property Insurance Underwriting Association (MPIUA) and I have to report on particular breeds. The obvious, German Shepherd, Pit Bull, Rottweiler, Akita . . . but, I'm sure there are a few more at least. Thanks in advance for any direction. Kirk

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  2. #2
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    Default Re: Dog Breeds- 'the list'

    Quote Originally Posted by Kirk Hersee View Post
    Does anyone know of any references (links, etc...)to the dog breeds that insurance companies (in massachusetts) have issues with. Most of my inspections are for the Mass Fair Plan (or Massachusetts Property Insurance Underwriting Association (MPIUA) and I have to report on particular breeds. The obvious, German Shepherd, Pit Bull, Rottweiler, Akita . . . but, I'm sure there are a few more at least. Thanks in advance for any direction. Kirk
    Never heard of German Shepherds being on a "bad dog" list.

    If you need a list of non-insurable dog breeds, I would contact MPIUA or the folks that have a problem with the dogs. I would bet that they have a list that you can use.

    Scott Patterson, ACI
    Spring Hill, TN
    www.traceinspections.com

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    Default Re: Dog Breeds- 'the list'

    I take offense to being on the "bad dog" list. Sure, I've chewed a few slippers in my younger days, but I'm pretty well behaved. Just don't come in my yard without my owner around.

    DJ - translated by Jim


  4. #4
    Kirk Hersee's Avatar
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    Default Re: Dog Breeds- 'the list'

    I'm definately going to follow up on the company I work with and MPIUA, I just thought I'd see if anyone had a quick link. Thanks


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    Default Re: Dog Breeds- 'the list'

    I think the reputation of dogs is relative to the owners. Some people should not own dogs.

    I have heard that the Dalmations can be troublesome. Don't know if they are on any lists.

    Up here in Ontario fwiw they have banned Pit Bulls.

    I myself have two Vizslas, beautiful dogs and very friendly fwiw.

    I found this site and thought it might be of assistance.

    KnobNots, a friendly alternative to Beware of Dog signs

    Cheers,

    Raymond


  6. #6
    Marty Hurst's Avatar
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    Default Re: Dog Breeds- 'the list'

    This puppy might be on the list, but I could not get close enough to ask him!

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  7. #7
    Jerry Peck's Avatar
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    Default Re: Dog Breeds- 'the list'

    Marty,

    Years ago I had one like that come after me from behind while I was outside tapping on the fascia and wood trim with my pole (I used a wooden tool handle about 5 feet long with a rubber table leg on one end and a weed puller probe epoxied into the opposite end), I heard the dog and turned around just in time to lower the pole at the oncoming dog ... the dog swallowed the (fortunately) rubber end first ... all the way down until the dog choked on it, spit and coughed, and ran away yelping, cowering in the rear corner of the yard and afraid to come in my direction.

    Too bad I had not lowered the sharp probe end ... it would have been one dead dog on the end of a bar-b-que spit as that probe end would have torn its throat to pieces.

    Jerry Peck, Construction / Litigation Consultant
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  8. #8
    Richard Moore's Avatar
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    Default Re: Dog Breeds- 'the list'

    How many dogs does it take to change a lightbulb?

    - Author unknown

    · GOLDEN RETRIEVER: The sun is shining, the day is young, we've got our whole lives ahead of us, and you're inside worrying about a stupid burned out bulb?
    · BORDER COLLIE: Just one. And then I'll replace any wiring that's not up to code.
    · DACHSHUND: You know I can't reach that stupid lamp
    · ROTTWEILER: Make me.
    · LAB: Oh, me, me!!!! Pleeeeeeze let me change the light bulb! Can I? Can I? Huh? Huh? Huh? Can I?
    · TIBETAN TERRIER: Let the Border Collie do it. You can feed me while he's busy!
    · JACK RUSSELL TERRIER: I'll just pop it in while I'm bouncing off the walls and furniture.
    · POODLE: I'll just blow in the Border Collie's ear and he'll do it. By the time he finishes rewiring the house, my nails will be dry.
    · COCKER SPANIEL: Why change it? I can still pee on the carpet in the dark.
    · DOBERMAN: While it's dark, I'm going to sleep on the couch.
    · BOXER: Who cares? I can still play with my squeaky toys in the dark......
    · CHIHUAHUA: Yo quiero Taco Bulb.
    · IRISH WOLFHOUND: Can somebody else do it? I've got this hangover....
    · POINTER: I see it, there it is, there it is, right there....
    · GREYHOUND: It isn't moving. Who cares?
    · AUSTRALIAN SHEPHERD: First, I'll put all the light bulbs in a little circle..
    · OLD ENGLISH SHEEP DOG: Light bulb? I'm sorry, but I don't see a light bulb?
    · HOUND DOG: ZZZZZZzzzzz.z.z.z..z..z..z...z

    And what about CATS?
    · CATS: Dogs do not change light bulbs. People change light bulbs. So, the question is: How long will it be before I can expect light?

    ALL OF WHICH PROVES, ONCE AGAIN, THAT WHILE DOGS HAVE MASTERS, CATS HAVE STAFF!!!


  9. #9
    Kirk Hersee's Avatar
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    Default Re: Dog Breeds- 'the list'

    Thanks for all your assistances. I did receive a small list from my company a few days ago, so, I'm ok there. You know though, once poochy bites someone, it's pretty much moot as to whether they're on a list. One homeowner sued another because she was walking her dog and another dog came padding along minding its own business and the dog on the leash went full tilt after the other dog and broke the woman's finger. And I found out that this particular town in Mass. doesn't even have a leash law. I was floored.


  10. #10
    Bruce Ellison's Avatar
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    Post Re: Dog Breeds- 'the list'

    So I just picked up a Pit/Mutt/Mix from the Worcester animal shelter. Didn't think about my homeowner's insurance until someone sent me an email telling me I should check with my policy and see if it covered dogs, especially Pits, etc. Turns out, they don't. The comment from the insurers was, "If we don't know about a dog, then of course we're not going to do anything. But if you ever told us you had a pit bull or any of the dogs on the list, or we found out because you had a dog bite incident, we would drop you". They also replied that they don't have any supplemental plan, or anything of the sort. Here's the list from travelers: "Bullmastiff, Rottweiler, German Shepherd (unless it's a seeing eye dog with papers), Husky, Chow, Akita, Doberman, Presa Canarie (I think they meant Presa Canario), Pit Bull including American Staffordshire Terrier, Great Dane, Alaskan". Gee, that's all? Geniuses don't include Boxers, and a number of other dogs I might put on the list if I were an evil insurance agency, but that's beside the point.

    Now I am stuck. I spent a few hundred on this dog between saving/adopting it from the shelter, buying a crate, putting up a dog run, and taking it to the vet multiple times. And now I'm going to lose my homeowner's insurance?

    To be fair, I've spent some time looking up insurance that would cover dogs, and people had mentioned Farmer's and State farm. Unfortunately neither one of them are available in this state, maybe because insurance was just deregulated here. Otherwise, there's only this Massachusetts Property Insurance Underwriting Association (MPIUA) also known as the Massachusetts FAIR Plan. And I have no idea if this is going to make my premium prohibitively expensive or not.

    Anyone have specifics on where to go for insurance, how to approach the issue, and how much it might cost?

    Thanks


    Last edited by Bruce Ellison; 11-22-2008 at 12:30 PM. Reason: spelling

  11. #11
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    Default Re: Dog Breeds- 'the list'

    Quote Originally Posted by SmartJaw View Post
    So I just picked up a Pit/Mutt/Mix from the Worcester animal shelter.

    No you didn't ... you just picked up a Mutt/Mixed Breed/Mongrel ... get a paper from your vet or the animal shelter which says so.

    By the way, we use our real names here. Allows us to get to know who we are communicating with.

    Click on the 'Contact Us' link at the bottom of the page and ask Brian to reset your name to your real name. Thanks, it helps us all.

    Sorry I couldn't give you an official welcome to here, don't know your name , so I don't know who I'd be welcoming.

    Jerry Peck, Construction / Litigation Consultant
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  12. #12
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    Default Re: Dog Breeds- 'the list'

    Thanks for that reply. I'll get the moderator to update my name - sorry, just used to other message boards where everyone uses a pseudonym.

    You know, that was my first thought this morning - was because when we adopted the dog, they were not sure what breed it was, as it was just taken in as a stray by the shelter, with no prior history. By the look of her, however, I'd definitely say she was a Pit of some sort, and so would my neighbors, I'm sure.

    I appreciate that advice, but I'm just not the guy who wants to risk losing his house because I got the animal shelter to say this was a mutt/unknown-breed, then have my insurance either drop my coverage if they ever suspected/claimed it was a pit/mix sufficient to meet their ban criteria, or worse, if there were to be an accident like a dog bite, for there to be no insurance coverage for myself or someone else who really needed it.

    Thanks

    Bruce Ellison


  13. #13
    Jerry Peck's Avatar
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    Default Re: Dog Breeds- 'the list'

    Bruce,

    Welcome to THE inspectors board.

    Quote Originally Posted by SmartJaw View Post
    I appreciate that advice, but I'm just not the guy who wants to risk losing his house because I got the animal shelter to say this was a mutt/unknown-breed, ...

    That is why I put the winking face ( ) there. Showing that it was 'in jest' ... wink, wink ...

    I do understand your problem, and your problem is compounded by the fact that if you cannot get insurance coverage for your dog, you will have a difficult time giving the dog to another person/family who would be willing to take care of it has you have started doing.

    Leaves you in the position of basically *having to get insurance* to cover the dog, or knowing that the dog may not survive if taken back to the shelter.

    To me, *the shelter* has a duty to notify those who adopt those breeds that certain risks come with those breeds, including those breeds not being allowed in some areas, having to be registered as a dangerous breed, requiring additional insurance, possibly meaning the cancellation of you insurance should the insurance company be notified you have one of those breeds. Seems to me that would be something which the operators of the shelter would require, otherwise it leave them open to being included in any action should an accident of some type happen in which the dog injures a person.

    Jerry Peck, Construction / Litigation Consultant
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  14. #14
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    Default Re: Dog Breeds- 'the list'

    Get a trainer to come to your home and work with the dog... Good dogs come from Good Owners...

    If hes a good dog now with some training he will be just fine and never Bite.

    I keep my dogs very Socialized with people they just love everybody they see.

    I think we get to caught up in all this insurance stuff...

    Its posted on out front gate never mind the dogs.
    don't mess with the WIFE She has a gun

    Best

    Ron


  15. #15
    Kirk Hersee's Avatar
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    Default Re: Dog Breeds- 'the list'

    Welcome (insert real name here LOL). I know your dilemma from an inspector's point of view. For whatever reason, these dogs get a bad rap and mostly it's an upbringing issue vs breed. But, as I have been told, some of the breeds have instincts that go back generations, so the insurance companies want to be safe than sorry. Dog bites account for a large % of insurance claims each each year. I had worked for one company that actually had me "interviewing" the dog and reporting its disposition and such. But, I don't work for them anymore and from what I hear, there aren't any companies in Mass. that cover these dogs except the "Fair Plan". And, depending on the dog, yes, I have known it to have caused an increase in premiums. My list is as follows:
    AKITA
    ALASKAN MALAMUTE
    BOXER
    BULLMASTIFF
    CHESAPEAK BAY RETRIEVER
    CHOW
    DALMATIAN
    DOBERMAN
    GERMAN SHEPHERD
    GREAT DANE
    PITBULL
    RHODESIAN RIDGEBACK
    ROTTWEILER
    SAMOYED
    SIBERIAN HUSKY
    ANY WOLF BREED

    SIMILARITIES W/ OTHER LIST (in bold):
    Bullmastiff,
    Rottweiler,
    German Shepherd
    Husky,
    Chow,
    Akita,
    Doberman,
    Presa Canarie
    Pit Bull including American Staffordshire Terrier,
    Great Dane,
    Alaskan

    There's more to have to know than our parents did as far as insurance carriers go these days. Imagine having to weigh having a pet (namely a german shepherd, as I see it as one of the "all-american" icons of family pets) with whether or not to pay for it (kinda like leasing it )

    Kirk



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    Default Re: Dog Breeds- 'the list'

    "
    AKITA
    ALASKAN MALAMUTE
    BOXER
    BULLMASTIFF
    CHESAPEAK BAY RETRIEVER
    CHOW
    DALMATIAN
    DOBERMAN
    GERMAN SHEPHERD
    GREAT DANE
    PITBULL
    RHODESIAN RIDGEBACK
    ROTTWEILER
    SAMOYED
    SIBERIAN HUSKY
    ANY WOLF BREED"

    What NO Yorkies?

    ' correct a wise man and you gain a friend... correct a fool and he'll bloody your nose'.

  17. #17
    Kirk Hersee's Avatar
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    Default Re: Dog Breeds- 'the list'

    Quote Originally Posted by Rick Cantrell View Post
    "
    What NO Yorkies?
    Only from Manhattan or Long Island. LOL. Boooo! Lame joke, sorry.


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    Default Re: Dog Breeds- 'the list'

    Quote Originally Posted by Kirk Hersee View Post
    Only from Manhattan or Long Island. LOL. Boooo! Lame joke, sorry.
    What no Yorkies?
    .
    Not Really!!
    * see attached
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    Default Re: Dog Breeds- 'the list'

    Billy
    If that's your Yourkie, it's cute.
    Mine is about 6 years old.
    A customer give him to me about 2 years ago.

    ' correct a wise man and you gain a friend... correct a fool and he'll bloody your nose'.

  20. #20
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    Default Re: Dog Breeds- 'the list'

    Try to take a toy from a Yorkie. All hell will break lose.

    Best dog ever though.

    rick

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  21. #21
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    Default Re: Dog Breeds- 'the list'



    Say Rick this is Chewy Billy was taken care of him for me. L.O.L.

    Ball time is a every 15 min thing with this little guy... He will hold onto a rope and i can swing him around just like a pit bull. i have only done that one time as he would not let go so started picking him up bit by bit. dam this little dudes not letting go...

    These little guys think they are 100 pit bull. from what i understand that has been one of the down falls of many Yorkie.

    Best

    Ron


  22. #22
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    Default Re: Dog Breeds- 'the list'

    As the owner of four Yorkies, Myki, Spike, Sly and Lizzie, two boys and two girls and all of them think they are as tough as any Pitt, Rott, Akita etc. It's a lot of fun when I take my guys out for a walk and we encounter one ot the above breeds. My guys will try to charge after them and more often than not the larger breeds will turn and run. I guess it's' all in the attitude. If you think you are a bad ass you just might come across as a bad ass.


  23. #23
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    Default Re: Dog Breeds- 'the list'

    Quote Originally Posted by Ron Bibler View Post
    Get a trainer to come to your home and work with the dog... Good dogs come from Good Owners...
    I agree with that, and bad dogs come from bad owners, but, there are also breeds which have a history of 'not being good dogs', and that history is usually deserved.

    If hes a good dog now with some training he will be just fine and never Bite.
    I sure hope you never tell a client that.

    In the Orlando area, just since we have been up here, there have been many (probably a dozen) of dogs 'of those breeds' which had 'good owners', and which ... bit and injured people from little kids to elderly, people the dogs have been around for a long time, their owners and family members.

    One thing which can definitely be said about those dogs: they never bit anyone ... BEFORE. Never ever. They were "good dogs", being treated nice, and the only thing you can say about those dogs is that "they have never bitten anyone YET.

    There is no way to know if those dogs "will bite someone" at some point in time, but it happens, and it is not rare.

    I keep my dogs very Socialized with people they just love everybody they see.
    As were those dogs.

    I think we get to caught up in all this insurance stuff...
    And there is a reason "we get caught up in all the insurance stuff".

    Jerry Peck, Construction / Litigation Consultant
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  24. #24
    Ron Bibler's Avatar
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    Default Re: Dog Breeds- 'the list'

    Jerry You are the master of slice and dice.

    Best

    Ron


  25. #25
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    Default Re: Dog Breeds- 'the list'

    So, are Yorkies like a home inspector dog or what. The whole werewolf thing kinda scares me with Rons dog. I have been chased and nipped at more by the Little dogs than I have the bigger breeds.

    Ted Menelly, Castle Home Inspection Services
    www.inspectmycastle.com
    Fort Worth, Keller, Southlake, Plano, Flower Mound, DFW, TX

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    Default Re: Dog Breeds- 'the list'

    So, I got attacked by a weiner dog this morning. The only reason that small dogs aren't on the list is that they can't really cause any serious damage (unless there's an infant involved).

    The owner told me he hates anyone in a uniform as well, and that the dog received 2 doses of pepper spray by a UPS man a while back.

    The only 2 breeds of dogs that I have actually been attacked by are a black lab and a weiner dog--- go figure.


  27. #27
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    Default Re: Dog Breeds- 'the list'

    Quote Originally Posted by Ted Menelly View Post
    So, are Yorkies like a home inspector dog or what. The whole werewolf thing kinda scares me with Rons dog. I have been chased and nipped at more by the Little dogs than I have the bigger breeds.
    Ricks looks like a little tuff guy to me.

    just don't look him in the eye RUN!!!

    Best

    Ron

    Last edited by Ron Bibler; 11-26-2008 at 05:37 PM.

  28. #28
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    Default Re: Dog Breeds- 'the list'

    I think dogs know when you're afraid of them. Even just a little tiny Yorkie bit.

    I've been around all sorts of dogs all my life and never had a problem with any of them, including thousands of inspections over the last seven years.

    I also know how to approach a dog, though, wild, tame, mine, someone else's. A few days ago I was at an inspection where a large golden lab was in the back yard. My Clients and the Realtor were upset because there was never a dog there previously when they had gone to look at the property. Mr. G. Lab had free reign of the side and rear yards. When I looked outside, I saw big bones (non-human), tennis balls, ropes, and other throw toys, so I knew Mr. G. Lab was a big ol' softie. I crouched down at the glass door to put myself on his level (less fear to me on his part), opened the door slightly, and in comes this huge, pink, wet, slobbery tongue. Reminded me of Gene Simmons -- LOL. Mr. G. Lab just wanted a little love, attention, and someone to throw all of his toys in the yard so that he could go collect them all and bring them back.

    Inspection accomplished. Clients happy.


  29. #29
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    Angry Re: Dog Breeds- 'the list'

    I live in massachuetts and have a sheperd lab mix and 3 years ago my insurnace co called me and asked me what kind of dog i had and wanted a photo of her . I sent a photo a week later i get a letter they canceled my home insurance and said i was un insureable. They put me thru hell i had to find another co and lie to them about having a dog .Mean while the first co found out the new insurance co i got and contaced them and told them, i had a dog they came to my house and looked around the yard i hid the dog . bottom line if you own a sheperd mix dont tell your insurance.


  30. #30
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    Default Re: Dog Breeds- 'the list'

    Racial profiling for animals, nice Or should it be breed profiling. So I guess homes with hard wood floors and tile will cost more next, right? After all it might hurt more when you fall on those, as compared to a plush carpet. I know this in not the place to discuss this, but does anybody find this wrong?

    John


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    Default Re: Dog Breeds- 'the list'

    For those of you that question weather an insurance company should keep a " Bad dog list", I have a story for you.
    When I was around 10 years old I was attacked by a mixed Shepard breed. Not bitten, attacked, BIG differance.
    Lease laws, bad dog laws and increased insurance cost to owners of these types of dogs help to keep injurys down. Remember dogs more often attack childern than adults.
    I think that a 40 ton big rig truck needs more insurance because it can do more damage, just as some types of dogs can do more damage than others and therefore measures are needed to protect the public.

    ' correct a wise man and you gain a friend... correct a fool and he'll bloody your nose'.

  32. #32
    Kirk Hersee's Avatar
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    Default Re: Dog Breeds- 'the list'

    I was chased and bitten by a scottish terrier when I was a kid. Funny (kinda), my friend had been bitten by the same dog (in the same exact spot). I, however, provoked the little !*#&!$@! cuz he bit my friend. The dog was relentless. I was riding my bike and he ran after me forever on those little legs, barking and growling all the time. My mistake; I slowed down to try to kick him (why do I feel bad about saying that now???).

    I think that there should be a choice; you want a dog, pay for it. Just like a trampoline or pool.


  33. #33
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    Default Re: Dog Breeds- 'the list'

    Will insurers deny coverage if your spouse is on a police wanted list or deny coverage because your spouse has a propensity to drink and drive? Or will they deny coverage because you live in an earthquake zone, or fire zone, or hurricane zone?

    At the rate insurers are going you will have to bring your 40 year old house up to code before they will cover it.

    Where does it stop, its gotten to the point where insurers are denying more and more things, while charging more and more for less coverage. What a racket.

    Raymond Wand Home Inspection Service
    http://www.raymondwand.ca
    The value of experience is not in seeing much, but in seeing wisely.

  34. #34
    Kirk Hersee's Avatar
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    Default Re: Dog Breeds- 'the list'

    Quote Originally Posted by Raymond Wand View Post
    Or will they deny coverage because you live in an earthquake zone, or fire zone, or hurricane zone?
    They may not deny, but in some areas you will have premiums that are quite high.

    Quote Originally Posted by Raymond Wand View Post
    At the rate insurers are going you will have to bring your 40 year old house up to code before they will cover it.
    In Massachusetts, people who buy these older homes (turn of the century and older) are actually placed in the Mass Fair Plan automatically. Some (that I'm aware of) anyway. Horsehair plaster and knob and tube wiring head the list of items in older homes needing upgrading. I believe if you do the upgrades (essentially rebuilding the dwelling to the point you couldn't tell its age - new walls, electrical, etc..) you'll be ok.


  35. #35
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    Default Re: Dog Breeds- 'the list'

    Yes, those are some, and they're all about the same, some companies have different criteria as to what dogs are more of a priority on the list, as to not insure the home because of certain breeds.
    Mastifs are another, dobermans and there are a few others, when I would insure and inspect a home, it was the chihauhau's I was terrified of.


  36. #36
    Ron Bibler's Avatar
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    Default Re: Dog Breeds- 'the list'

    I got bit in the but one time. I think i was 9 or so from a dog and this lady wanted me to take off my pants in the center of the street. she wanted to look at my but and Dog bit i think. very ugly lady. just my luck.

    Best

    Ron

    Last edited by Ron Bibler; 11-26-2008 at 05:36 PM.

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    Default Re: Dog Breeds- 'the list'

    Quote Originally Posted by Ron Bibler View Post
    I got bit in the but one fro a dog and this lady wanted me to take off my pants in the center of the street. she wanted to look at my but and Dog bit i think. very ugly lady. just my luck.

    Best

    Ron
    .
    .Thank You Ron for Sharing That.
    .



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  38. #38
    Join Date
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    Default Re: Dog Breeds- 'the list'

    Its not just the insurance companies, I am a landlord have a few rental homes I do allow dogs but no pit bulls. My house my rules if I have to come into the house to make any repairs I do not want to have to think about a pit bull. Big dog lover here but have a real fear of this breed.

    Steve Reilly


  39. #39
    J. Gonzalez's Avatar
    J. Gonzalez Guest

    Default Re: Dog Breeds- 'the list'

    Yes, I agree, those can be a monster at times.


  40. #40
    Kent Keith's Avatar
    Kent Keith is offline Member
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    Default Re: Dog Breeds- 'the list'

    I'm afraid of whippets.....should have been on the "bad" dog list.


    I'm also worried about the size of the dogs that roam my neighborhood.



  41. #41
    Rick Hurst's Avatar
    Rick Hurst is offline Member
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    Default Re: Dog Breeds- 'the list'

    Mastino Napoletano, the God of all Dogs

    rick

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  42. #42
    Ron Bibler's Avatar
    Ron Bibler is offline Member
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    Default Re: Dog Breeds- 'the list'

    watch your step in the yard. Dang now thats a pile of *@$#

    Best

    Ron


  43. #43
    Ted Menelly's Avatar
    Ted Menelly is offline Member
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    Default Re: Dog Breeds- 'the list'

    Quote Originally Posted by Kent Keith View Post
    I'm afraid of whippets.....should have been on the "bad" dog list.


    I'm also worried about the size of the dogs that roam my neighborhood.
    Seriously. That dog looks like it is taking steroids and going to the gym seven days a week.

    Ted Menelly, Castle Home Inspection Services
    www.inspectmycastle.com
    Fort Worth, Keller, Southlake, Plano, Flower Mound, DFW, TX

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