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  1. #1
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    Dec 2008
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    Erwin, TN
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    Default Feeder laying on crawl space floor

    Should these service wires 3/0 be inside conduit or at least fastened to the bottoms of the floor joist ?

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  2. #2
    Join Date
    Mar 2009
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    Colorado Front Range
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    Default Re: Feeder laying on crawl space floor

    Individual conductors like that are never permitted to lay on the ground, sub-floor, attic, etc.

    Depending on the type of insulation, the conductors may not even be permitted in conduit. The stuff looks like overhead service cable and doesn't belong anywhere inside the structure

    Honestly, there should be a disconnect near the meter and something like SER type cable fastened to the bottom of the joists.

    Don't know the complete details on the installation here, but if these conductors run straight from a service entrance or meter, then to a disconnect/panel inside the structure, there would a bit of a boom if the cable faulted. There wouldn't be any over-current protection except what's at the transformer - way more than what you'd want to see, especially in a confined space as shown.

    The installation is illegal and never passed any inspection (at least I hope not) and needs to be redone.

    Occam's eraser: The philosophical principle that even the simplest solution is bound to have something wrong with it.

  3. #3
    Join Date
    Mar 2007
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    Default Re: Feeder laying on crawl space floor

    Quote Originally Posted by Sam Morris View Post
    Should these service wires 3/0 be inside conduit or at least fastened to the bottoms of the floor joist ?
    If there is a single conductor in each (but I only see two single conductors, I would expect four conductors for a feeder, at least three conductors if it was a 240 volt feeder), then yes to the raceway. And the raceway would need to be supported.

    If two separate feeder cables, then yes to being supported.

    I noticed Bill answered as I was typing Bill has better eyes than I do because I couldn't determine what kind of cables they were.

    Last edited by Jerry Peck; 04-20-2021 at 05:48 AM. Reason: Made a correction - I had "plus a ground" when I had the ground counted in
    Jerry Peck
    Construction Litigation Consultant ( www.ConstructionLitigationConsultants.com )
    www.AskCodeMan.com

  4. #4
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    Default Re: Feeder laying on crawl space floor

    Ahhh ... I just noticed where I got feeders from and Bill got service entrance conductors from:

    Title to thread: "Feeder laying on crawl space floor"

    Post started off with: "Should these service wires "

    If they are service entrance conductors - see Bill's reply. PLUS the fact that they should not even be there in the crawlspace like that even in conduit ... unless encased in 2" of concrete.

    If they are feeders (i.e., such as there is a disconnect at the meter), then a different set or rules apply, which I only addressed part of (i.e., they need to be rated for damp or wet locations, such as have "W" in the conductor insulation type, etc).


    Last edited by Jerry Peck; 04-20-2021 at 08:17 AM.
    Jerry Peck
    Construction Litigation Consultant ( www.ConstructionLitigationConsultants.com )
    www.AskCodeMan.com

  5. #5
    Join Date
    Mar 2007
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    Santa Rosa, CA
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    Default Re: Feeder laying on crawl space floor

    Sam,

    With something like this and the answers that you received from Bill & Jerry, the best bet is to state that individual conductors are on the soil under the house, that it is incorrect and defer to an electrical contractor for any needed corrections. When we are out of our depth as home inspectors, it is best to not design a repair (recommending installation in a conduit is a repair design).

    Department of Redundancy Department
    http://www.FullCircleInspect.com/

  6. #6
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    Default Re: Feeder laying on crawl space floor

    Gunnar,

    Instead of "individual conductors", which may be incorrect, I would go with "electrical cables/conductors" as that eliminates the contractor from saying 'typical home inspector doesn't know what he's talking about' because those are (the opposite of whichever one was written done) ... as we know many contractors seem to like doing when they can.

    Using both terms includes 'either/or', making the home inspector correct (not specifically wrong).

    Then state that securing and supporting are required at a minimum, have electrical contractor investigate and determine any an all other corrections necessary (something to that affect as we don't know what else is needed based on what they are and what they are used as).

    Jerry Peck
    Construction Litigation Consultant ( www.ConstructionLitigationConsultants.com )
    www.AskCodeMan.com

  7. #7
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    Mar 2007
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    Santa Rosa, CA
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    Default Re: Feeder laying on crawl space floor

    Quote Originally Posted by Jerry Peck View Post
    Instead of "individual conductors", which may be incorrect, I would go with "electrical cables/conductors" as that eliminates the contractor from saying 'typical home inspector doesn't know what he's talking about...
    Jerry,

    Fair enough. I do that a lot in my reports largely because I got tired of folks saying "The window isn't broken, it's cracked" or vice-versa.

    Quote Originally Posted by Jerry Peck View Post
    ... have electrical contractor investigate and determine any an all other corrections necessary (something to that affect as we don't know what else is needed based on what they are and what they are used as).
    I tried to do that with "any needed corrections", but I see what you mean. Tomato, tomahto.

    Department of Redundancy Department
    http://www.FullCircleInspect.com/

  8. #8
    Join Date
    Feb 2009
    Location
    Southern Vancouver Island
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    4,605

    Default Re: Feeder laying on crawl space floor

    Right, that's a nasty snake to find when you're crawling in there on your gut.
    I'm late to the party, but if those are service conductors, even if they were in conduit,
    if a type of cable approved for conduit, the conduit needs to be protected by laying
    it in a trough filled with concrete.

    John Kogel, RHI, BC HI Lic #47455
    www.allsafehome.ca

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