WIRE NUT DOUBLE TAPPING BREAKERS

[CHARLIE VAN FLEET]

GUYS

is it ok to wire nut three circuits to one breaker and i know the top wire nut has upper size wire nutted with smaller gauge wire. wrote it up to have repaired by licensed electrician. think i made right call--but can ammend report not due till tomorrow.

thjanks

cvf

[Jim Port]

Unless there is AL mixed with copper under the wire nut and the breaker size is appropriate there is no issue.

[Jack Feldmann]

I would amend the report, unless there was a problem like those already posted.

[CHARLIE VAN FLEET]

jack

ok to have two different size wires nutted together ?

cvf

[Jim Port]

As long as the smallest or lowest rated wire is protected at its ampacity it is fine.

[jack davenport]

GUYS

is it ok to wire nut three circuits to one breaker and i know the top wire nut has upper size wire nutted with smaller gauge wire. wrote it up to have repaired by licensed electrician. think i made right call--but can ammend report not due till tomorrow.

thjanks

cvf

It is only one circuit - not three

[Jerry Peck]

That is the easy way to correct multiple tapped breaker terminals - connect the two-three-or more conductors to one new conductor with a properly sized wire nut connector and that one new conductor is then attached to the breaker.

Given the correct conditions stated above: i.e., the smallest conductor rating matches the breaker rating; rated for the proper wire sizes; etc.; then all is okay.

Also as stated in a post above, that is just one circuit.

[Mbrooke]

As long as the breaker is sized to the smallest conductor and the load doesn't exceed the breaker's handle rating your ok.

[CHARLIE VAN FLEET]

ok thanks all got my answer

[Jerry Peck]

As long as the breaker is sized to the smallest conductor and the load doesn't exceed the breaker's handle rating your ok.

Whoa! Just to clarify this because your post was right below the post below: the breaker size is *not* sized to fixture wires from any fixtures, the breaker is sized to the branch circuit conductor size/rating.

Yes, it's very common to have #16 or #18 AWG conductors in a fixture whip spliced to #12 or #10 branch circuit conductors using wire nuts.

Don't want someone to get the idea that the breaker needs to be sized to 16 AWG 18 AWG fixture wires.

[Tom Rees]

When does wire nutting multiple conductors together become an issue? I see where there is multiple instances of this in same panel. Why would you ever need to add a new panel if you could just keep adding conductors to existing breakers. I am not an electrician and am trying to learn for my clients benefit. Thanks for any advice.

[Mike Clarke]

Whoa! Just to clarify this because your post was right below the post below: the breaker size is *not* sized to fixture wires from any fixtures, the breaker is sized to the branch circuit conductor size/rating.


Don't want someone to get the idea that the breaker needs to be sized to 16 AWG 18 AWG fixture wires.

Branch circuit wiring is rated for max distance for amperage of protection. Fixtures are rated differently and many times can utilize size smaller, very short distances so not much resistance, are designed and approved as such, etc. Circuit protection is more for the branch wiring in the structure to prevent overloading and causing fires, not so much for the protection of the device connected.

[Jim Port]

Tom, the issue would be if someone tried to run too much off of the circuit. Simply having a splice does not mean there is too much load connected. The loading could be the same with a single conductor attached as multiples spliced at the panel. The usage determines the loads, not the number of wires. A branch circuit could go in multiple directions from a device or junction box anywhere in the circuit.

Also certain circuits are required to be dedicated to certain areas and are not to be shared. Kitchen/dining receptacles, bathroom receptalces and laundry circuits are common ones.

[Jerry Peck]

Branch circuit wiring is rated for max distance for amperage of protection.

"You got some 'splainin' to do ... " Huh?

No, the rating is not based on "max distance".


Fixtures are rated differently and many times can utilize size smaller, very short distances so not much resistance, are designed and approved as such, etc.

If you have a fixture drawing 20 amps, you will not find #18 AWG conductors coming from it.


Circuit protection is more for the branch wiring in the structure to prevent overloading and causing fires, not so much for the protection of the device connected.

That is what I said: "the breaker is sized to the branch circuit conductor size/rating"

[jack davenport]

Branch circuit wiring is rated for max distance for amperage of protection. Fixtures are rated differently and many times can utilize size smaller, very short distances so not much resistance, are designed and approved as such, etc. Circuit protection is more for the branch wiring in the structure to prevent overloading and causing fires, not so much for the protection of the device connected.

Fixture wires normally have differnt insulation and sometimes different conductor materials. That is taken into account when sizing those fixture leads at the factory.

[Jim Port]

Fixture wires are also sized based on the load expected to be imposed upon them.

[Daniel Mack]

jack

ok to have two different size wires nutted together ?

cvf

Wire nuts have a rating for how many of each AWG and in which combination the wires can be to comply with the listing for each size wire nut. This information is generally supplied on the packaging or the manufacturers web site.

- - - Updated - - -

[Harold Doughty]

When does wire nutting multiple conductors together become an issue? I see where there is multiple instances of this in same panel. Why would you ever need to add a new panel if you could just keep adding conductors to existing breakers. I am not an electrician and am trying to learn for my clients benefit. Thanks for any advice.

Tom, besides what others have mentioned, one case where wire nutting multiple conductors in a service panel becomes a problem is when the max fill of the junction box (service panel in this case) is exceeded. This is usually not a problem in most newer panels, but could be a problem in some older panels that don't have much excess space to begin with.

[Joe Hendrix]

Would that not be in violation of using the panel board for a junction box? I understand the concept of using wire nuts in the panel board to extend wires or using them to correct double tapped overcurrent devices, but three wires to one seems like it would be using the panel board as a junction. Just curious.

[Jerry Peck]

Would that not be in violation of using the panel board for a junction box? I understand the concept of using wire nuts in the panel board to extend wires or using them to correct double tapped overcurrent devices, but three wires to one seems like it would be using the panel board as a junction. Just curious.

No, because you are only extending the conductors to the breakers.

[Frazier Jeffery]

write it up

[Jim Port]

write it up

What aspect are you talking about writing up? The splices are allowed as has been said already in this thread.