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  1. #1
    mathew stouffer's Avatar
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  2. #2
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    Default Re: New construction, exhaust fans

    Last time ventilation (a window or exhaust fan) was required in a laundry room was the 1991 UBC


  3. #3
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    Default Re: New construction, exhaust fans

    Quote Originally Posted by mathew stouffer View Post
    Are exhaust fans required in laundry rooms for new home based on the IRC
    No it is not required.

    Scott Patterson, ACI
    Spring Hill, TN
    www.traceinspections.com

  4. #4
    mathew stouffer's Avatar
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    Default Re: New construction, exhaust fans

    Didn't thinks so. Client wants me to pay for one.


  5. #5
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    Default Re: New construction, exhaust fans

    Quote Originally Posted by mathew stouffer View Post
    Didn't thinks so. Client wants me to pay for one.
    What gave your client the idea that one was required and that you should pay for it?


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    Default Re: New construction, exhaust fans

    Are you sure you're asking the right question?

    Specifically an exhaust fan: no, not necessarily. Specifically a means to ventilate the room during the periods while the room or space is occupied (mechanical, natural, or by sufficient opening communicating with adjoing spaces): yes.

    Otherwise, what distinctions did you think made a difference from when you've asked about this before, such as:

    http://www.inspectionnews.net/home_i...aust-fans.html ???

    The "raw" unammended fully-incorporated 2009 IRC in its mechanical chapters section incorporates the IMC and IFGC where applicable, for those areas, systems, appliances, equipment, installations etc. not specifically addressed therein:

    2009 IRC:

    M1301.1 Scope. The provisions of this chapter shall govern the installation of mechanical systems not specifically covered in other chapters applicable to mechanical systems. Installations of mechanical appliances, equipment and systems not addressed by this code shall comply with the applicable provisions of the International Mechanical Code and the International Fuel Gas Code.

    Presuming said "laundry room" were within the conditoned envelope of the occupied space, and not - for the purposes of the appropriate mechanical chapters or the IMC, as per ventilation-, make-up-, and combustion-air -- considered "part" of the "garage space"...

    A "Laundry room" is not required to be in a dwelling unit. When one is present, then ventilation must be addressed.

    Strictly speaking, a true dedicated "laundry" "room" would be utility in nature. It would not be considered a "habital" space, but an "occupied" space. It further would meet minimum "room size" requirements to be considered an actual "room".

    During periods of "occupation" ventilation or a means to that end, is required. As the "subject" is not spelled out precisely in the IRC - as a "laundry room" or even laundry facilities are not required by the IRC, default (as per M1301 of IRC) to the IMC. (2009 IMC, see Chapter 4 International Mechanical Code, beginning with Section 401, specifically subsections 401.2, 401.3 of the IMC, Sufficient ventilation of all occupied spaces while occupied.) Ventilation may be accomplished a number of ways, however, strictly speaking, ventilation is not accompished merely by means of an "exhaust fan" ducted to the outdoors - if mechanical ventilation (even for uninhabited spaces) is utilized it requires a means for supply air to be a mechanical ventilation system. Natural ventilation is also an acceptable means to an end (such as operable windows); utilitzation of which is at the discretion of the occupants. If the "room" isn't an enclosed space - and the communication opening is sufficently large to adjoining spaces, ventilation may be accomplished from beyond the laundry "room" via that communicating opening.

    2009 IMC:

    401.2 Ventilation required. Every occupied space shall be ventilated by natural means in accordance with Section 402 or by mechanical means in accordance with Section 403.

    401.3 When required. Ventilation shall be provided during the periods that the room or space is occupied.


    Should there be other than a condensing dryer installed in place, in an area set-up as or designated as a "laundry area", then sufficient make-up air for a dryer would be required in addition to the dryer exhaust duct, and should the dryer be a fuel-burning one - additional provisions for adequate combustion air would likewise be required.

    Mat, I couldn't recall from memory at the moment which edition, or what chapters of the IRC were applicable in Utah, nor what if any ammendments to same, nor the applicability or inapplicablity of the IMC to Utah were/are I just addressed the rather vague and limited nature of the OP.

    Of course, all presumes the property in question is actually an IRC type property and not an IBC-based (residential though it may be) construction.

    Last edited by H.G. Watson, Sr.; 05-12-2012 at 05:18 PM.

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    Default Re: New construction, exhaust fans

    Quote Originally Posted by H.G. Watson, Sr. View Post
    Are you sure you're asking the right question?

    Otherwise, what distinctions did you think made a difference from before:

    http://www.inspectionnews.net/home_i...aust-fans.html

    The "raw" IRC in its mechanical section incorporates the IMC and IFGC where applicable, for those areas, systems, appliances, equipment, etc. not specifically addressed.

    2009 IRC:

    M1301.1 Scope. The provisions of this chapter shall govern the installation of mechanical systems not specifically covered in other chapters applicable to mechanical systems. Installations of mechanical appliances, equipment and systems not addressed by this code shall comply with the applicable provisions of the International Mechanical Code and the International Fuel Gas Code.
    Watson, you've lost me, and I am sure, others too.

    Where has an appliance, equipment, or mechanical system been referenced which is not addressed by the IRC?

    Jerry Peck, Construction / Litigation Consultant
    Construction Litigation Consultants, LLC ( www.ConstructionLitigationConsultants.com )
    www.AskCodeMan.com

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    Default Re: New construction, exhaust fans

    Quote Originally Posted by Jerry Peck View Post
    Watson, you've lost me, and I am sure, others too.

    Where has an appliance, equipment, or mechanical system been referenced which is not addressed by the IRC?

    The IRC does not require a laundry ROOM. The IRC prescribes much for occupied, but not habital, spaces required by itself, i.e. bathrooms, toilet rooms.

    Ventilation of occupied spaces is required during the periods while occupied. This is addressed via M1301 of the IRC which directs the reader regarding system ventilation provisions not specifically addressed in the mechanical chapters which follow, to the IMC. The requirements are clearly addressed as I indicated earlier in Chapter 4 of the IMC.

    Exhaust fans are not required in laundry ROOMS, should they be present; however, provisions for sufficient ventilation while the ROOM or ROOMS are occupied IS required.


  9. #9
    Garry Blankenship's Avatar
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    Default Re: New construction, exhaust fans

    Have mercy Watson ! That is a serpentined mess. I supposed an operable window makes it all go away. Makes since when a dryer and exhaust fan are both competing for air that a viable source must be present. I wonder if vented windows meet the requirement/s ?


  10. #10
    Garry Blankenship's Avatar
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    Default Re: New construction, exhaust fans

    Mathew; what is the logic behind your paying for the exhaust fan; required or not ? Are you the builder ? Most H.I. contracts make it very clear the inspections are not code compliance inspections. BTW. Ask your client / whomever is demanding you pay; for chapter and verse / the specific AHJ correction mandating this, complete w/ reference to the applicable written code of record. I want a new hot tub - - - and I want you to pay for it.


  11. #11
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    Default Re: New construction, exhaust fans

    Quote Originally Posted by H.G. Watson, Sr. View Post
    The IRC does not require a laundry ROOM. The IRC prescribes much for occupied, but not habital, spaces required by itself, i.e. bathrooms, toilet rooms.
    The IRC doe not require a garage, nor does the IRC require a carport, or require a deck, or require a den, or require a dining room, or require a ... the list would almost be endless ... but that *is not* the same as "not addressed" - the IRC *does* address laundry rooms and laundry areas.

    What the IRC is referring to is, for example, you were to install a cooling tower on a single family dwelling - that is not addressed in the IRC, so you would go to the IMC.

    Watson, you really need to get real ... I do think you have gone off your meds again.

    Jerry Peck, Construction / Litigation Consultant
    Construction Litigation Consultants, LLC ( www.ConstructionLitigationConsultants.com )
    www.AskCodeMan.com

  12. #12
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    Default Re: New construction, exhaust fans

    Garry B, don't even go there. The state of Washington has required BOTH an exhaust fan AND ventillation for laundry rooms since at least 2007, first with its free-standing Ventillation Indoor Air Quality code which applied state wide to all residential construction, then it incorporated same into the latest adopted version (via ammendments) of the IRC and IBC.


    Jerry P, its clear, and its the way the I-codes work. Just like your inexperience with oil-burners, and the IRC's incorporation of NFPA 31; when the code references another and incorporates it therein - its applicable.Shame you can't keep a discussion on a professional level. In mild temperate/zone drafty florida which has its own quirky independant requirements energy code, etc. is no comparison with the rest of the country beyond California.

    Comparing a garage attached or not to space within the thermal envelope of the home, occupied space, and dedicated solely for laundry room is disingenuous.

    Sufficient and adequate ventillation during periods of occupancy is required for ALL occupied space. The raw, unammended 2009 IRC does not require an exhaust fan in a dedicated laundry "ROOM", it does require adequate ventillation by its incorporation of the IMC and references to ASHRAE standards.

    As usual, you resort to infantile sour grapes.

    Last edited by H.G. Watson, Sr.; 05-12-2012 at 09:38 PM.

  13. #13
    mathew stouffer's Avatar
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    Default Re: New construction, exhaust fans

    It was a simple question. Holy sh@t you must have a lot of time on your hands. I do however appreciate your responses. Fron now on as far as my inspection process is concerned a luandry room does not need a fan


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    Default Re: New construction, exhaust fans

    Tell them it's already got one. It's called the dryer. Basically a large exhaust fan with a heat function added.

    Jim Robinson
    New Mexico, USA

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    Default Re: New construction, exhaust fans

    Quote Originally Posted by H.G. Watson, Sr. View Post
    Jerry P, its clear, and its the way the I-codes work.
    Watson,

    You are correct in that the I-codes work that way, you are incorrect in your application of the way the I-codes work that way.

    Laundry rooms, etc., ARE addressed in the IRC, and as such one DOES NOT NEED to go to the IMC for ventilation of a laundry room IN A DWELLING COVERED BY THE IRC.

    Your apparent inexperience with the application of how to apply that in the I-codes is obvious ... either that you are are simply pulling another Watsonism from the smoke and mirrors you are using while trying to cover up you incorrect answer.

    Jerry Peck, Construction / Litigation Consultant
    Construction Litigation Consultants, LLC ( www.ConstructionLitigationConsultants.com )
    www.AskCodeMan.com

  16. #16
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    Default Re: New construction, exhaust fans

    IMO a fan in the laundry room is the most useless thing installed in my house. I've NEVER used it. Maybe there are other parts of the country that are more humid and it's needed??

    I find myself turning it on every few months just to be sure it works..... not sure why though since I'd never fix it if it didn't.


  17. #17
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    Default Re: New construction, exhaust fans

    Quote Originally Posted by mathew stouffer View Post
    It was a simple question. Holy sh@t you must have a lot of time on your hands. I do however appreciate your responses. Fron now on as far as my inspection process is concerned a luandry room does not need a fan
    You are welcome Mat. I figured since you've asked the question more than once over the years, you deserved to have the circle completed so you could apply the information yourself to the various circumstances you encounter in your endeavors.


  18. #18
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    Default Re: New construction, exhaust fans

    Matt, Why do you think the laundry room fan is useless?

    Don Hester
    NCW Home Inspections, LLC
    Wa. St. Licensed H I #647, WSDA #80050, http://www.ncwhomeinspections.com

  19. #19
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    Default Re: New construction, exhaust fans

    I can't comment on the arid states but here in Washington I highly recommend that they run the fan during washing and dryer. Washing and dryer can add a lot of moisture to the air. Many people will close the door to this room which is small to begin with. When you already have high ambient moisture levels such as the Pacific North West and add the warm moisture to it you will get condensation on the walls and the birth of mold spores. Pulling air through that room with a fan will usually prevent this. When I lived in Colorado we never had this problem and welcomed the moisture but then again rarely did we ever see humidity above 50%. In the PNW if you stand in one place too long moss starts to grow on the north side :->


    //Rick

    Rick Bunzel
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  20. #20
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    Default Re: New construction, exhaust fans

    This puzzles me as well. Why an exhaust fan in a laundry room that already has an appliance that discharges tens of cubic feet of air-out of the room-per minute. Makes no sense. If anything, a laundry room needs make up air. I see, when watching Holmes on Homes, that fans must be required way up north as they are visible on his show and at times he complains about them not being there. As far as 'required' ventilation is concerned-what is the defination of ventilation? Air coming out or air going into a space? Is the ventilation natural-via a window, or thru the HVAC system? Curious questions we oft times pose.


  21. #21
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    Default Re: New construction, exhaust fans

    Rick, add to the fact that many people never clean their dryer vent then you really can add some moisture to the room.


    Honey why is my clothes not drying and there is this funny smell? ; )

    Don Hester
    NCW Home Inspections, LLC
    Wa. St. Licensed H I #647, WSDA #80050, http://www.ncwhomeinspections.com

  22. #22
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    Default Re: New construction, exhaust fans

    Quote Originally Posted by Michael Bronner View Post
    This puzzles me as well. Why an exhaust fan in a laundry room that already has an appliance that discharges tens of cubic feet of air-out of the room-per minute. Makes no sense. If anything, a laundry room needs make up air. I see, when watching Holmes on Homes, that fans must be required way up north as they are visible on his show and at times he complains about them not being there. As far as 'required' ventilation is concerned-what is the defination of ventilation? Air coming out or air going into a space? Is the ventilation natural-via a window, or thru the HVAC system? Curious questions we oft times pose.
    Are you seriously asking or speaking rhetorically?


  23. #23
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    Default Re: New construction, exhaust fans

    I am on the wet side of the Wet Coast and we do not bother to install exhaust fans in a laundry room. Even the higher end homes with all the bells and whistles, nope, no exhaust fan. No ill effects either.
    If you're washing clothes with a 1940's wringer washer, yeah, maybe you'd need a fan.

    There will sometimes be a humidistat installed in the hall, hooked up to the nearest bath fan. They are invariably turned all the way off. I often have to tell people what they do, like they are some kind of magic trick.

    The humid states and provinces have problems, maybe, because the humidity can be already too high.

    John Kogel, RHI, BC HI Lic #47455
    www.allsafehome.ca

  24. #24
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    Default Re: New construction, exhaust fans

    Quote Originally Posted by Michael Bronner View Post
    This puzzles me as well. Why an exhaust fan in a laundry room that already has an appliance that discharges tens of cubic feet of air-out of the room-per minute. Makes no sense. If anything, a laundry room needs make up air.
    Exactly!

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