E&O Insurance

[Eric Russell]

I was just wondering...does anyone use GREI for their E&O and GL? I've got a real good quote from them, but don't know anything about them. Can anyone shed some light on them? Thanks.

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[Dan Harris]

I was just wondering...does anyone use GREI for their E&O and GL? I've got a real good quote from them, but don't know anything about them. Can anyone shed some light on them? Thanks.

I've done a little research on them. Granted their E@O may be lower, if you add Liability at $800 plus they aren't much lower than my current provider.

From what I've gathered, they have a lot of exculsions, and may find any excuse they can, to not pay a claim, if needed..

Talking to some local guys they stongly suggested requesting a copy of their policy to confirm what they do and do not cover.

[Scott Patterson]

This is my under standing of them... They sell a membership in their organization, this membership includes E&O coverage. FREIA does the same as well as a couple of others.

This where it gets a little fuzzy.......They buy a group type policy that covers everyone in the group. This group policy has a limit so if they have a bunch of claims (not likely) at the same time the policy in theory could reach it's coverage limit. This is how it was explained to me by a non-competing insurance broker(he sells medical and attorney E&O).

I believe that BRP and Allen are a couple of the few that write individual policies and do not use the group type coverage.

I use BRP, they proved E&O, GL, Corporate coverage, EW coverage, radon coverage and a few more. I also go with the $5K deductible and that saves a good amount. I just re-upped with them and I think I pay around $2100 a year. A Little know fact! If you have passed the NHIE BRP will give you a discount! If you are an ASHI member BRP will giver you a discount!

FYI, I also carry an independent GL policy through Shelter Insurance just to make Momma happy.....!

[Benjamin Gromicko]

I was just wondering...does anyone use GREI for their E&O and GL? I've got a real good quote from them, but don't know anything about them. Can anyone shed some light on them? Thanks.

I think FREA provides free G&L FREE General Liability insurance exclusively for InterNACHI members. - InterNACHI

[Rick Cantrell]

Ben
Why is it that many (most) of your post (and Lisa's) are a commercial?
It really is a turn off.

BTW to me free means without cost or obligation.
So GL is not free if you have to buy something else.


4. a. Not affected or restricted by a given condition or circumstance.
b. Not subject to a given condition; exempt:
5. Not subject to external restraint:
6. Not literal or exact:
7. Costing nothing; gratuitous:

[Benjamin Gromicko]

Ben
Why is it that many (most) of your post (and Lisa's) are a commercial?
It really is a turn off.

BTW to me free means without cost or obligation.
So GL is not free if you have to buy something else.


4. a. Not affected or restricted by a given condition or circumstance.
b. Not subject to a given condition; exempt:
5. Not subject to external restraint:
6. Not literal or exact:
7. Costing nothing; gratuitous:

I'm not associated with FREA. Just trying to help Eric.
Here's another commercial
http://www.inspectionnews.net/home_i...rojection.html

[Rick Cantrell]

I'm not associated with FREA. Just trying to help Eric.

I do not think you are with FREA.
I think you are promoting INACHI

Here's another commercial
http://www.inspectionnews.net/home_i...rojection.html

Yes I saw it, good post.
That is also why I said "many (most)"
BWT look at your tag line.

It's OK to inform someone about a benefit INACHI has, occasionally, not nearly every post.

[Dan Harris]

I'm not associated with FREA. Just trying to help Eric.
[/url]

Looking at Eric's website it indicates he's certified by nickie. Is this the only way you have to communicate/help your members?

If FREA has such a great bargan for nicko only certified, why are his elete promoting another company, and claiming to get a $50.00 kick back from that company on your website?

[Benjamin Gromicko]

I'm not associated with FREA. Just trying to help Eric.

I do not think you are with FREA.
I think you are promoting INACHI

Here's another commercial
http://www.inspectionnews.net/home_i...rojection.html

Yes I saw it, good post.
That is also why I said "many (most)"
BWT look at your tag line.

It's OK to inform someone about a benefit INACHI has, occasionally, not nearly every post.

I don't understand.

ads-running-on-message-board.jpg

[Benjamin Gromicko]

... why are his elete promoting another company, and claiming to get a $50.00 kick back from that company on your website?

What does "elete" mean?
What kickback? From my website, Ben Gromicko Huh?

Please, Eric needs some E&O and GL insurance. I prefer to stay on topic.

[Rick Cantrell]

"I don't understand"

Sorry if I was not clear, I'll start over.

It seems that many (if not most) of your post are promoting INACHI.
Such as the GL is FREE link to the FREA page on INACHI.
To me, this is a commercial.

I then said I don't consider that it's free.

I then referenced your tag line
$2.20 for a book you wrote
Again, a link back to INACHI

What I'm saying is that after awhile it becomes nothing more than spam.

As for your reference to Dan's post (#9)
I don't understand why you linked to it.

You highlighted occasionally, Why?

[Benjamin Gromicko]

It seems that many (if not most) of your post are promoting INACHI.
Such as the GL is FREE link to the FREA page on INACHI.
To me, this is a commercial.

Rick,
It relates to Eric's question of getting a good GL quote. FREE is a pretty good quote. IMHO.

[Rick Cantrell]

I'm not being critical of you, really.
I'm just telling you how I see it, and likely other people see it the same as I do.

I,ve said enough, thanks for listening.

[Benjamin Gromicko]

I'm not being critical of you, really.
I'm just telling you how I see it, and likely other people see it the same as I do.

I,ve said enough, thanks for listening.

Again, getting back to Eric. Can anyone get Eric a good quote for E&O and GL?

[H.G. Watson, Sr.]

Conditional (on other than ones own performance) and based on arbitrary membership which can be canceled by others on a whim, without notice or appeal, so-called "free" GL is worth what is paid for it, IMHO.

Group insurance makes you a 3rd party beneficiary to the primary contract (between Group controlling entity and the insurance company) dependant on membership to the qualifying group.

Difficult to rely upon if the standards, controlling (contractural, enforceable, bylaws, etc.) provide no clear guidelines or recourse should you feel the "victim" of arbitrary or capricious ejection from the group; likewise should the group simply cease to exist, or those which control the "group" be deemed in violation of the primary contract what notice/warning would you receive, and could you afford to shop, complete underwriting and secure replacement covereage in that time period? What are the (if any) provisions for continuation coverage?

I feel these are isses to consider and research for yourself.

Anything pooled or group insurance based consider not only the underwriter and policy language but how good or protected you are by the qualities of the GROUP itself, and of course if the risks/experience/benefits of the group coverage is best for your business model and personal protection.

One of the things oftentimes overlooked by the 3rd party insured is the possiblity of contractural language in the primary certificate which determines under which state's jurisdiction has authority regarding complaints, and whether or not should one seek to litigate those "complaints" if one is limited to arbitration or WHICH court of jurisdiction (and which jurisdiction).

Its your livelyhood, and your liability (or your estate's) that GL provides (either you as an individual, your corporate entity, or both DEPENDING).

E&O is the topic title.

It has been my experience that it is best to carry (notice you are DBA an incorporated entity) ones primary commercial GL with ones E&O as a corporate entity, and have oneself as an individual person (not just via D/B/A or as an officer/owner) listed insured and/or named insured. If the vehicle is owned or leased by the corporate entity, commercial auto and additional listing named insured with "drive other car" coverage (when your primary vehicle is unavailable for some aspect of buisness related activities, i.e. mechanical repair, a claim event, you decide to travel for CEUs, etc.). This then combines that GL umbrella to the vehicle.

Corporate "veils" can be quite thin and are rarely impenetrable, however even an allegation of an unveiled or non-covered act a provider can decline to defend.

Additional umbrella coverages for your personal protection can be negotiated with the same or other provider (such as your personal home peril insurer for personal GL umbrellas).

Eric Russell, on a more personal note: I preferred to keep my personal "life" separated from my "professional", especially in delicate areas regarding residential housing and commercial property, perceived biases, equal and access issues. I wouldn't have chosen to include religious ideology, etc. with my business materials or advertising, but that's me.

[H.G. Watson, Sr.]

Rick,
It relates to Eric's question of getting a good GL quote. FREE is a pretty good quote. IMHO.

The OP did not have a question about getting a good GL quote.

He stated he had a "good quote" for E&O & GL (implying liked the price), his quesiton pertained requesting information to the specific insurance program.

Must be something genetic and/or environmental!

[Eric Russell]

I got a few things to say about this thread...first, these pi$$in matches get rather old and we should stick to the post topic, however, being an HI myself, I know this is impossible. Second, I am a member of INACHI, and I'm not ashamed to admit it! I joined for one reason...to get free training, which I feel is very good quality. After joining, I found that there are other benefits to being a member and I'm glad I did. I'll join ASHI too one of these days, maybe...its really a matter of what your needs are and what org. can best meet them. INACHI fit the bill for me. Third, the FREA E&O is the highest priced stuff out there I have found, so they should be giving free something to offset the high premiums! Also, there are too many exclusions with the GREIA policy...guess thats why so cheap. I've found BRP and First Indemnity were reasonable and the policies were agreeable. Thanks guys.

[Joseph Melbourne]

Anyone have anything to say about TUDOR Insurance, I recently got a quote from them of $2800.00. Haven't tried anyone else.

[Eric Russell]

I've got another question...I just got a quote from NAPLIA for a program called Inspectorpro. It was 1800.00 including GL. It has 500K E&O and 500K GL with 1500 ded. on EO and 250 ded. on GL. I'm with NAPLIA now but have been shopping this year. So far, the lowest I've got is 2078 from First Indemnity until today with this new one. As I mentioned earlier...the GREIA had so many exclusions, I started wondering what they did cover. Any thoughts. I've checked with FREA (most expensive), Allen, BRP, First Indemnity, OREP, GREIA, Wally Glaser, and others.

[Philippe Heller]

We carry E&O and GL from Allen Insurance. They are very good. They offer a policy suitable to multi-inspector firms which was our motivation. They insure the company, not the individual inspector.

OREP has a good program too. I would check them out.

[Chuck Lambert]

I've got another question...I just got a quote from NAPLIA for a program called Inspectorpro. It was 1800.00 including GL. It has 500K E&O and 500K GL with 1500 ded. on EO and 250 ded. on GL. I'm with NAPLIA now but have been shopping this year. So far, the lowest I've got is 2078 from First Indemnity until today with this new one. As I mentioned earlier...the GREIA had so many exclusions, I started wondering what they did cover. Any thoughts. I've checked with FREA (most expensive), Allen, BRP, First Indemnity, OREP, GREIA, Wally Glaser, and others.

That quote is about as good as you are gonna get.

Chuck

[Scott Patterson]

That quote is about as good as you are gonna get.

Chuck

Cheapest is not always the best as we all know when folks are shopping for home inspectors!

[Chuck Lambert]

Cheapest is not always the best as we all know when folks are shopping for home inspectors!

That is true my friend!! So true!!

Chuck

[Ben Garrison]

I'm pretty sure that the NAPLIA program is offered through Lexington, not InspectorPro if I read that correctly. Michele Dineen at NAPLIA is top notch. Please note, that is me saying that about a competitor :-)

Anyway, when it comes to E&O, you're going to find a broad spectrum of pricing. Anywhere from $800-$3300 and more often than not, you get what you pay for. Would you, as an inspector, question my decision to hire an inspector for $50 rather than spending the standard $350? Point being, if it looks to good to be true then it generally is. Only problem is once you find out you didn't get what you thought you paid for, it's likely too late.

If you're an inspector who is only looking to satisfy a state/franchise/association requirement in your search for E&O, I'd try to find the cheapest thing out there. But if you truly want to protect yourself and your clients to some degree, then I would consider a company who has a strong reputation as well as continuity in the industry.

[Rick Cantrell]

Ben
Thanks for putting it into perspective.

[Ben Garrison]

No problem. Always glad to help.

[Eric Russell]

I'm pretty sure that the NAPLIA program is offered through Lexington, not InspectorPro if I read that correctly. Michele Dineen at NAPLIA is top notch. Please note, that is me saying that about a competitor :-)

Ben, I just received the quote yesterday from NAPLIA. Allison Lowell informed me this is a new offering they have made available. They offer Lexington, and have for some time...this is what I currently have, but they NOW offer the Inspectorpro.

You are correct about Michele, she is top-notch, but you stand corrected on the Inspectorpro!

[Ben Garrison]

Thanks for the update. I just emailed Michele to get the details. I like to stay educated when it comes to what my competition is doing so I can give inspectors the right info.

[Eric Russell]

No problem Ben. Just giving you "the business" for fun. It was a good quote, but, like you said earlier, I'm a little wary when it comes to those sweet deals. I'm paying $2400 right now for NAPLIA 500/500 w/GL and $2500 ded. As I said, John Remark at First Indemnity is the best quote I've received for exactly the same coverage as NAPLIA...and I've checked them all. FREA was the highest...I've pretty much decided to go with FII and John Remark. Every time I call, he answers...that means alot to me too...maybe more than the price...Naaaaah! Oh yeah...Scott P. I checked with BRP and they were $2250.

[H.G. Watson, Sr.]

ER,If you're talking to John R, could you check out this thread? Ask him about his last post on it, been waiting for the promised update and clarification on this same topic, regarding the "Hartford".Thank you in advance.Here is the "other thread" (somewhat recent):http://www.inspectionnews.net/home_i...insurance.html

[Eric Russell]

ER,If you're talking to John R, could you check out this thread? Ask him about his last post on it, been waiting for the promised update and clarification on this same topic, regarding the "Hartford".Thank you in advance.Here is the "other thread" (somewhat recent):http://www.inspectionnews.net/home_i...insurance.html

HG, I can tell you this much...The Hartford has been on several of my quotes for GL, but never have they been the primary on the E&O. They may provide it, but its been mostly Lexington or Lloyd's. As far as The Citadel goes, haven't asked for a quote from them, but I'll give John a reminder.

[Scott Patterson]

No problem Ben. Just giving you "the business" for fun. It was a good quote, but, like you said earlier, I'm a little wary when it comes to those sweet deals. I'm paying $2400 right now for NAPLIA 500/500 w/GL and $2500 ded. As I said, John Remark at First Indemnity is the best quote I've received for exactly the same coverage as NAPLIA...and I've checked them all. FREA was the highest...I've pretty much decided to go with FII and John Remark. Every time I call, he answers...that means alot to me too...maybe more than the price...Naaaaah! Oh yeah...Scott P. I checked with BRP and they were $2250.

What I like about BRP is that they also provide (at no extra cost) the following and more with their E&O program:
Radon testing coverage
Corporate coverage
GL coverage
Expert witness coverage
and a few other items that I don't recall right now.
BRP also notifies and updates the state with a copy of your policy.

Sure wish I got a commission for selling their product!

[Scott Patterson]

HG, I can tell you this much...The Hartford has been on several of my quotes for GL, but never have they been the primary on the E&O. They may provide it, but its been mostly Lexington or Lloyd's. As far as The Citadel goes, haven't asked for a quote from them, but I'll give John a reminder.

If you have a question about The Hartford, contact this guy....
Greg Leffard, VP of Professional Liability
860-547-5478
gregory.leffard@thehartford.com

I met him at InspectionWord back in January and he said that they were just entering the home inspection market.

[Myles Russell]

I've got another question...I just got a quote from NAPLIA for a program called Inspectorpro. It was 1800.00 including GL. It has 500K E&O and 500K GL with 1500 ded. on EO and 250 ded. on GL. I'm with NAPLIA now but have been shopping this year. So far, the lowest I've got is 2078 from First Indemnity until today with this new one. As I mentioned earlier...the GREIA had so many exclusions, I started wondering what they did cover. Any thoughts. I've checked with FREA (most expensive), Allen, BRP, First Indemnity, OREP, GREIA, Wally Glaser, and others.

GREIA only has two exclusions on the GREIA policy; mold and asbestos. "two" and "so many" are very different statements. Again, the GREIA policy only has two exclusions. I would be interested in knowing what source you are quoting that backs up your statement about GREIA. This is not an advertisement. This is a response to misinformation.

[Myles Russell]

This is my under standing of them... They sell a membership in their organization, this membership includes E&O coverage. FREIA does the same as well as a couple of others.

This where it gets a little fuzzy.......They buy a group type policy that covers everyone in the group. This group policy has a limit so if they have a bunch of claims (not likely) at the same time the policy in theory could reach it's coverage limit. This is how it was explained to me by a non-competing insurance broker(he sells medical and attorney E&O).

I believe that BRP and Allen are a couple of the few that write individual policies and do not use the group type coverage.

I use BRP, they proved E&O, GL, Corporate coverage, EW coverage, radon coverage and a few more. I also go with the $5K deductible and that saves a good amount. I just re-upped with them and I think I pay around $2100 a year. A Little know fact! If you have passed the NHIE BRP will give you a discount! If you are an ASHI member BRP will giver you a discount!

FYI, I also carry an independent GL policy through Shelter Insurance just to make Momma happy.....!

The GREIA policy is a lower price because it is a master policy with nearly a thousand members, who are individually covered. It is NOT a shared aggregate policy. Each Inspector has 1 million E&O coverage. There is no limit on the master policy. If all GREIA members were sued for a million dollars, they would all be covered for a million dollars. This is not an advertisement for GREIA. This is a response to misinformation.

[Myles Russell]

I've done a little research on them. Granted their E@O may be lower, if you add Liability at $800 plus they aren't much lower than my current provider.

From what I've gathered, they have a lot of exculsions, and may find any excuse they can, to not pay a claim, if needed..

Talking to some local guys they stongly suggested requesting a copy of their policy to confirm what they do and do not cover.

Can you provide the source that shows GREIA has a "lot" of exclusions? Because there are only two; mold and asbestos. Also, can you provide the source that tells you GREIA "may" find any excuse they can to not pay a claim? The only claim that has been denied through this program was from an inspector who had a claim filed 3 months after he let his coverage lapse due to financial hardship. He did not purchase tail coverage. That is industry standard policy. Any GREIA competitor would have done the same thing. No other claims have been denied. This is not an advertisement. This is a response to misinformation. The details of our policy are spelled out clearly on our website, which you can find on any search engine. I'll not post the link because this is not an advertisement.

[Scott Patterson]

The GREIA policy is a lower price because it is a master policy with nearly a thousand members, who are individually covered. It is NOT a shared aggregate policy. Each Inspector has 1 million E&O coverage. There is no limit on the master policy. If all GREIA members were sued for a million dollars, they would all be covered for a million dollars. This is not an advertisement for GREIA. This is a response to misinformation.

Hi Myles, Thank you for clearing that up. I will have to let the person know this who told it to me.

Question?? All policies have a limit. Even a "Master Policy" will have limit or co-insurance. So if I understand you correctly, your Master Policy has no dollar limit to the amount of claims it can have on it?

[Myles Russell]

Hi Myles, Thank you for clearing that up. I will have to let the person know this who told it to me.

Question?? All policies have a limit. Even a "Master Policy" will have limit or co-insurance. So if I understand you correctly, your Master Policy has no dollar limit to the amount of claims it can have on it?

Simply put, each inspector has a limit of 1 million dollars, period. The policy under which these inspectors are covered had, at one time, a 50 million dollar shared aggregate. This was early in the development of this program. When we discovered that our competitors were attempting to use this against us under the myth that all master policies have a limit or a shared aggregate, we simply asked that the carrier write an endorsement into the policy that lifted the 50 million dollar shared aggregate and allowed for each and every inspector to be covered for the 1 million dollars that they pay for, without having to worry about an aggregate running out. They were happy to add this endorsement. There is no shared aggregate on the GREIA policy. As it is written now, the limit (1 million per inspector) goes up as the number of inspectors goes up. It's that simple.

In fact, it is not technically a group or master policy, since we are not at liberty to approve or deny applicants at our own discretion. (the carrier has not denied coverage to anyone so far, but we still have to go through them first with each new member) The words "group policy" or "master policy" are not in the policy. The GREIA policy is unique in this regard. We ourselves are guilty of using the terms within our own circles in order to keep it simple.

All that being said, if the seas turned red with blood and the sky turned black with locusts, and all of our inspectors got sued in the same year for a million dollars each, we are not sure what the result of that would be considering that would be more than a billion dollars in lawsuits. Any carrier can deny any claim for any reason, and i think under that circumstance, they would be looking for reasons. As was previously stated, in our history going back 13 years when we were primarily active in the state of Georgia, our carriers have never denied a claim to any member of our organization. The only claim that was denied was one from an inspector who had canceled his membership and his coverage and had not purchased tail coverage.

Sorry for the wall of text.

[Scott Patterson]

Simply put, each inspector has a limit of 1 million dollars, period. The policy under which these inspectors are covered had, at one time, a 50 million dollar shared aggregate. This was early in the development of this program. When we discovered that our competitors were attempting to use this against us under the myth that all master policies have a limit or a shared aggregate, we simply asked that the carrier write an endorsement into the policy that lifted the 50 million dollar shared aggregate and allowed for each and every inspector to be covered for the 1 million dollars that they pay for, without having to worry about an aggregate running out. They were happy to add this endorsement. There is no shared aggregate on the GREIA policy. As it is written now, the limit (1 million per inspector) goes up as the number of inspectors goes up. It's that simple.

In fact, it is not technically a group or master policy, since we are not at liberty to approve or deny applicants at our own discretion. (the carrier has not denied coverage to anyone so far, but we still have to go through them first with each new member) The words "group policy" or "master policy" are not in the policy. The GREIA policy is unique in this regard. We ourselves are guilty of using the terms within our own circles in order to keep it simple.

All that being said, if the seas turned red with blood and the sky turned black with locusts, and all of our inspectors got sued in the same year for a million dollars each, we are not sure what the result of that would be considering that would be more than a billion dollars in lawsuits. Any carrier can deny any claim for any reason, and i think under that circumstance, they would be looking for reasons. As was previously stated, in our history going back 13 years when we were primarily active in the state of Georgia, our carriers have never denied a claim to any member of our organization. The only claim that was denied was one from an inspector who had canceled his membership and his coverage and had not purchased tail coverage.

Sorry for the wall of text.

Kool..

[Eric Russell]

GREIA only has two exclusions on the GREIA policy; mold and asbestos. "two" and "so many" are very different statements. Again, the GREIA policy only has two exclusions. I would be interested in knowing what source you are quoting that backs up your statement about GREIA. This is not an advertisement. This is a response to misinformation.

Myles...I beg your forgiveness on the exclusions. You are correct...there are only two listed on the policy summary...mold and asbestos. I guess since I had read so many quotes I got them mixed up. When I'm wrong I say I'm wrong. Just sorry it took so long to get back on here. Been busy lately with no time for browsing this site. If what you are saying about the million dolar coverage and the aggregate are true, then that's a really good deal on the E&O. Might reconsider my decision in June 2011, if you'll let me in then.