Caution if you are going to buy or are doing IR work during a home inspection

[ROBERT YOUNG]

Lisa, tell Nick he can not put them in-front of a mirror. LOL

[Thomas]

You shouldn't judge the validity of patents, trademarks or copyrights by counting the number of lawsuits filed to defend them. If you are in the inspection business, you probably are using a product or service from a vendor that has licensed some intellectual property from Nick.

I don't think anybody is questioning the validity of the patents. They just have very narrow claims. It is ridiculous to pay to license something which you do not use. Despite Nicks' s, and now your sweeping claims in letters and forum posts that everyone uses the patented techniques, the claims in the actual patents are not broad enough to be applicable to any but a handful of people. If someone goes to a class to learn and then try to duplicate the methods, then yes, there would be an infringement issue. But for the average home inspector who bought a ir camera to speed up inspections, or catch some signs of damage/potential problems by pointing it around the house and interpreting what he sees, there is almost no way to infringe on the narrow patented claims. See the light bulb comparison above.

[Raymond Wand]

If we follow the logic of Lisa, those who bought an Eye-Stick could be sued for patent infringement by third parties.

[Lon Henderson]

Recommendation: If you call that number insure they email you back a list of conditions one must abide to avoid litigation with list of consequences. Ask the company to insure replies have a company seal and duly signed by the C.E.O. or managing director for authentication.

Can we assume that you have followed your own recommendation? I think most of us, even those of us who don't use IR much, if at all, would be interested in the "list of conditions" that you received. Please, enlighten us and post that list here.

[Lisa Endza]

You really don't understand our legal system, do you? You don't have to infringe on a patent to be sued for patent infringement and to suffer enormous defense costs.

In fact, this whole thing started when an inspector got sued by the patent owners a couple years back. ASHI formed a task force to study the issue and to take up a collection to pay for the inspector's attorney. ASHI collected a whopping $180. Nick stepped in, settled the lawsuit for the inspector, then bought the patents so that no other InterNACHI member would get sued.

[ROBERT YOUNG]

Can we assume that you have followed your own recommendation? I think most of us, even those of us who don't use IR much, if at all, would be interested in the "list of conditions" that you received. Please, enlighten us and post that list here.

I am perplexed by your question.

My answer was satirical.
Good day.

[Raymond Wand]

You really don't understand our legal system, do you? You don't have to infringe on a patent to be sued for patent infringement and to suffer enormous defense costs.

In fact, this whole thing started when an inspector got sued by the patent owners a couple years back. ASHI formed a task force to study the issue and to take up a collection to pay for the inspector's attorney. ASHI collected a whopping $180. Nick stepped in, settled the lawsuit for the inspector, then bought the patents so that no other InterNACHI member would get sued.

Lisa

I fully understand the legal system apparently you don't. Anyone can be named in a lawsuit and as a consequence must endure costs to defend themselves. Irrespective of IR or any other suit filed against someone.

Further it troubles me that you come here and tell me I don't understand the legal process yet Nacho and it owner threw natural justice, due justice and the right to a fair hearing out the window when your so-called association conducted an open Kangaroo court, contrary to the US constitution guarantees, contrary to sound legal principles, and where the respondents are not entitled to see the evidence, question the evidence posted on an open forum by questionable characters, be outed on a public forum rather than in camera, and then have rights arbitrarily denied as to the right to appeal any finding of guilt. And where double standards take precedence over a duty of care.

Please stop being the proverbial hypocrite. Its sanctimonious given what goes on in that marketing company you say you speak for.

May be you should speak to Mr. Cohen, or I could speak on your behalf because he apparently hasn't instilled the very principals your marketing company must employ.

[Lon Henderson]

I am perplexed by your question.

My answer was satirical.
Good day.

Funny......kinda

You are definitely a weirdo. That's a clinical assessment of the evidence you've presented here. I'll keep my opinion about you to myself and put you on ignore as I haven't seen you offer anything of substance and doubt that you are capable of offering substance.

[ROBERT YOUNG]

Funny......kinda

You are definitely a weirdo. That's a clinical assessment of the evidence you've presented here. I'll keep my opinion about you to myself and put you on ignore as I haven't seen you offer anything of substance and doubt that you are capable of offering substance.

Mr. Henderson.
First let me start off by saying, "Members/colleagues, I am sorry if I have been that offensive. I do not intentionally mean to be mean or do harm onto others.
Please accept my humble apology."

"That's a clinical assessment of the evidence you've presented here."
In my humblest opinion, I had an idea this would turn into a heated rivalry.
Mr. Patterson was a gentleman, as he always is, and kind enough to answer my questions. If I went to far then excuse me colleagues.

"I'll keep my opinion about you to myself and put you on ignore."
1: You have not keep your opinion to yourself.
2: You try to paint a picture without depth of/or substance. That's slinging mud!
3: You wish to openly say to all the members here, you will put me on ignore.

Please accept my humble apology if my posts affected you this way.

Now Mr. Henderson, I have not called you names, been condescending, nor have I made derogatory and disparaging remarks about you.
If someone had a reason to put someone on ignore, whom would it be in your eyes?

I will take your comments to heart and try to be useful.
Best regards.
Robert Young

[ROBERT YOUNG]

I am guaranteeing he will see a big fallout in Ontario. Working on exposing on how he was involved in wrong doing by not stopping what was reported to him. He has become a partner in deception and that is the way he will go in the books of Ontario. Sad that his failure to listen will result in exposing his lack of "At Arms Length Discipline" to deal with his precious CMI's.
I did however make him a deal. If he forms a "At Arms Length discipline" then we can deal with this in Ontario.
His response was to stay out of his Kitchen.
My response was similar and at this time he had no choice but to ban me again.
If you are a non-member you get treated like a piece of discarded waste by the monitor of the message board.
Glad that does not happen on other MB's.

Kevin, it is unfortunate you feel that way.
Great InterNACHI members contributed to the Canadian home inspection industry as a whole.
Some archiving provincial industry recognition.
CMI, CCHI, consumer awareness.

As for the MB. Last time I looked it was an open association message board Kevin.
Can you name another.
Like it or not open means open. allowing access, passage, or a view through an empty space; not closed or blocked up, exposed to the air or to view; not covered., ikely to suffer from or be affected by; vulnerable or subject to.

As for your unfounded allegations, please reflect before posting. If your intentions are worthy then all will be relieved, but if not, your creditability dwindles.

I can name many members that have left the association. The funny thing is, not one has continued to post about it as you do.

Try moving forward.

Best regards.
Robert Young

[Len Inkster]

Kevin, it is unfortunate you feel that way.
Great InterNACHI members contributed to the Canadian home inspection industry as a whole.
Some archiving provincial industry recognition.
CMI, CCHI, consumer awareness.

As for the MB. Last time I looked it was an open association message board Kevin.
Can you name another.
Like it or not open means open. allowing access, passage, or a view through an empty space; not closed or blocked up, exposed to the air or to view; not covered., ikely to suffer from or be affected by; vulnerable or subject to.

As for your unfounded allegations, please reflect before posting. If your intentions are worthy then all will be relieved, but if not, your creditability dwindles.

I can name many members that have left the association. The funny thing is, not one has continued to post about it as you do.

Try moving forward.

Best regards.
Robert Young

Nicely put Robert https://youtu.be/barWV7RWkq0

[Raymond Wand]

Robert

Professional associations practice natural justice. None of which your favourite association practices. You yourself have been at the receiving end.

Show me one instance please where the rules of natural justice have been applied, let alone the forum rules, or bylaws.

It's perplexing to read your review keeping in mind that no court upon review would find in favour of draconian measures.

But the right to fairness trumps insanity, threats, bullying, intimidation and so on. It's readily apparent that due process is not in the vanacular of the marketing company.

Enjoy your day and thanks for your opinion.

[ROBERT YOUNG]

Robert

Professional associations practice natural justice. None of which your favourite association practices. You yourself have been at the receiving end.

Show me one instance please where the rules of natural justice have been applied, let alone the forum rules, or bylaws.

It's perplexing to read your review keeping in mind that no court upon review would find in favour of draconian measures.

But the right to fairness trumps insanity, threats, bullying, intimidation and so on. It's readily apparent that due process is not in the vanacular of the marketing company.

Enjoy your day and thanks for your opinion.

Raymond, with respect to the industry, and all homie's, please read what I have written above.
InterNACHI has an open message board.

1: As to; "one instance please where the rules of natural justice have been applied," Out of the 32 or so home inspection associations in North America can you point one out where this happens?
If so, you would have to vet all the cases and be judge and jury as well.

2: It's perplexing to read your review keeping in mind that no court upon review would find in favour of draconian measures.
I will repeat; out of the 32 or so home inspection associations in North America, can you point out the ones that practice diligent justice?

3: I concur.
Also; it is all about marketing one's business Ray.
Be it word of mouth, Website, or advertising of any kind. The fact remains, Trillions of dollars every year are spent on marketing businesses.
We are about to elect a new government Ray. Do you think it is illegal or wrong for them to market their platforms?

4: It's not a perfect place, but for now it's my place and I back the association as well as the founder.

Ray, you leverage ideas from within.
Anyone can make excuses, cut and run.
But it takes fortitude, courage, conviction, time and personal effort if you believe things can change.
Call me a dreamer. Ha ha ha.

I came onboard NACHI when Roy Cooke senior was fighting what seemed an endless daily battle.
Many ganged up or marginalized Roy.
They belittled, mocked, chastised, and did so continuously.

I defended him without even knowing who he was Ray.
Why, conviction!
Something was wrong.

What I witnessed; every word skillfully crafted, aimed to deflect and defend.
A master at wit and the skill of recall and the ability to personally defend himself against the endless criticism.
Every narrative based in fact and logic.

He needed no help from me Ray, but I am sure he felt he had a colleague that he could lean on and support him when times were thought, or at least I hope so.

So I pick my association out of the 32 or so in North Amerca like everyone else does.
I learn, criticize and engage.
I know it is not a perfect place, but never the less one I defend, try to enrich through dialog, and one that I call home.

Best regards to you as well Raymond.
Have a great day.

nachi logo.JPG Clapping.gif

[Raymond Wand]

Robert

Answer to 1 and 2.

OAHI/CAHPI/OACETT, and even ASHI has some form of proper process with complaints/hearings re SOP/COE falling under the scope of adminstrative law.

From what I understand once we are licenced here, the administrative board will be made up of appointees. inspectors rights will be enshrined in the Act since governments have to follow the Charter guarantees. That will be a watershed event, and a very good aspect of licencing.

Just remember the open forum is open, and the closed forum is not secure. Hence people should not be so smug in thinking they can say things that still fall under the rules of libel and/or COE/SOP breaches.

Now can you provide me one instance where due process was followed in your favoured association since I answered your question?

Thanks Robert

[ROBERT YOUNG]

Robert

Now can you provide me one instance where due process was followed in your favoured association since I answered your question?

Thanks Robert

Ray, with all due respect to yourself and your personal stance on how the industry and association should be run;I personally understand the concerns of homies, as well the consumer.
Consumers are first and foremost seeing home inspections are still a cottage industry in my view.


To answer your question; James B., Yourself, The poster below you, Brian X a non member, to which I personal made a complaint to the ESOP committee.

|I will be back later off to work.

[ROBERT YOUNG]

Ray, so sorry.
I am tired from a long HI as well as other life circumstances.
I thought you replied.
I have never heard you use that tone before.
Sorry!
Regards friend.
Robert

Kevin, with all due respect, I have been following this as well.
It.s words like, "Listen to this Robert if not anything at all. I gave both Association's 2 years to get it right for Ontario" that skews your intentions.

What gives you the right to talk to people like that?
You appear to be acting as a bully and demanding authority.
You should know me better than that. I do not like bullies.
As expressed by a fellow and regarded colleague, "You can disagree on issues and still remain friends"

Kevein, the association posters that offended you are individuals, home inspectors, business men and representing an new association no matter what their designation. Their actions are theirs to own.
They have done many things right!
That deserve recognition.
Two years is plenty of time for them to grow their young association.
Look at the present for change and move forward in peace.

I said my piece.

[ROBERT YOUNG]

Love him or hate him, right or wrong..... Nick jumped ahead of this one. Our future is InterNACHI......I wonder if they'll have their own country like the Vatican?

Question, was it a good idea to protect said association members, or allow HomeSafe to continue litigating at will?
A yes or no answer will do.

[ROBERT YOUNG]

Where is FLIR, etc in all this? I wonder if they quietly support Homesafe?

Flir took HomeSafe to court as well.

Some may agree it was good while others not but Nick Gromicko made a business decision and acted on it.
http://www.nachi.org/documents/flir-...fe-lawsuit.pdf

[ROBERT YOUNG]

There goes my coffee all over the place. You do realize that the 3 Associtions you belong to have proven serious violations on file of bullying, deception, fraudulent behaviour and have no clue what due process is for what they call a "Not For Profit" association right.

Kevin, you can not let this go can you.
There are approximately 32 home inspection associations in North America.
I remember you continually posted how you were proud to be an InterNACHI homie and CMI.

You allowed certain members to provoke you with assumptions and allowed it to get under your skin and would not let it go.
You posted continually even when I email you to stop and reflect.
Too bad.
So sad.

What followed was unfortunate.

I suspect all association might have issues that might appear suspect but I am nether judge nor jury nor do I wish to focus on how other associations handle internal affairs.
Not my place!

My business and educational intentions are focused on the consumer service I provide.

Best to just move on.
Regards.
Robert

[Lisa Endza]

InterNACHI Smacks Homesafe, Seddon with Federal Racketeering Lawsuit - InterNACHI

[ROBERT YOUNG]

Thanks Lisa.
Well its about time someone stuck up for us homies against the patent troll.
Everyone sat and watched without lifting a monetary finger, persay.

Nick, you're the best for making it safe for all us home inspectors that use Infrared to work without worries.

As well, BIG THANKS to Joe Ferry! His ingenious claim's intercept has defended over 1600 meritless claims.
Joe, your the king mate!

[Dirk Jeanis]

InterNACHI Smacks Homesafe, Seddon with Federal Racketeering Lawsuit - InterNACHI

Why is the suit information no longer available?

[Lisa Endza]

https://www.nachi.org/infrared.htm

[ROBERT YOUNG]

https://www.nachi.org/infrared.htm

Thank you, Lisa.
You're The Best!